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RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 5:07:55 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28619
Status: offline

But as has been stated, we need a good WR to step up if JJ or AT are injured. Maybe Bisi Boldon is the guy.

Post #: 1926

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 5:13:59 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28619
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I see Smith-Marsette more as a #4 WR, sorta like Aldrick Robinson, catches a deep pass once in a great while.

I don't fully understand Bisi's regression, thought he might be a great, tough #3 someday, sorta like the aging Boldan, to convert 3rd downs. Does Bisi lack the speed to be that ?

Will having an improved OL, lead KC to more conversions with Bisi on 3rd downs ?

Not to go all stats on the board, but I read somewhere, that Bisi was pretty solid on receiving yards per route. Played well when asked to spot start, I think averaging 75 years a game. Both can be verified.

I like SM, both as a deep threat and to develop. But of course, very early to speculate.

As Brad has posted many times, not a lot of pie left in a two TE/2 WR heavy offense for 3rd/4th WRs.

He didn't average anywhere near 75 ypg starting.
2019 - about 20 ypg
2020 - about 50 ypg

And ypc
2019 - 9.5
2020 - 13.5 but on an extremely small sample size with only 14 catches on the year.

When you say the stats can be verified, I surmise you are saying they need to be verified and not that you have.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 5/20/2021 5:17:07 PM >

Post #: 1927

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 5:25:20 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I see Smith-Marsette more as a #4 WR, sorta like Aldrick Robinson, catches a deep pass once in a great while.

I don't fully understand Bisi's regression, thought he might be a great, tough #3 someday, sorta like the aging Boldan, to convert 3rd downs. Does Bisi lack the speed to be that ?

Will having an improved OL, lead KC to more conversions with Bisi on 3rd downs ?

Not to go all stats on the board, but I read somewhere, that Bisi was pretty solid on receiving yards per route. Played well when asked to spot start, I think averaging 75 years a game. Both can be verified.

I like SM, both as a deep threat and to develop. But of course, very early to speculate.

As Brad has posted many times, not a lot of pie left in a two TE/2 WR heavy offense for 3rd/4th WRs.

He didn't average anywhere near 75 ypg starting.
2019 - about 20 ypg
2020 - about 50 ypg

And ypc
2019 - 9.5
2020 - 13.5 but on an extremely small sample size with only 14 catches on the year.

When you say the stats can be verified, I surmise you are saying they need to be verified and not that you have.

Correct. I haven't verified and was going off memory. Definitely wrong about ypg when starting in 2020, mea culpa. Dunning-Kruger effect

Not YPC but yards per route run, I didn't really make that clear in my post. I'll try and look those up at some point. But regardless, sample size is so small, I probably shouldn't have even posted it.

< Message edited by Pager -- 5/20/2021 5:31:48 PM >

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 1928

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 5:28:46 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

But as has been stated, we need a good WR to step up if JJ or AT are injured. Maybe Bisi Boldon is the guy.

Definitely not advocating for our Bisi as our 3rd WR, but imo ok as 4th or 5th guy. Nor is he a development guy.

< Message edited by Pager -- 5/20/2021 5:32:06 PM >

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 1929

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 5:45:11 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28619
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I see Smith-Marsette more as a #4 WR, sorta like Aldrick Robinson, catches a deep pass once in a great while.

I don't fully understand Bisi's regression, thought he might be a great, tough #3 someday, sorta like the aging Boldan, to convert 3rd downs. Does Bisi lack the speed to be that ?

Will having an improved OL, lead KC to more conversions with Bisi on 3rd downs ?

Not to go all stats on the board, but I read somewhere, that Bisi was pretty solid on receiving yards per route. Played well when asked to spot start, I think averaging 75 years a game. Both can be verified.

I like SM, both as a deep threat and to develop. But of course, very early to speculate.

As Brad has posted many times, not a lot of pie left in a two TE/2 WR heavy offense for 3rd/4th WRs.

He didn't average anywhere near 75 ypg starting.
2019 - about 20 ypg
2020 - about 50 ypg

And ypc
2019 - 9.5
2020 - 13.5 but on an extremely small sample size with only 14 catches on the year.

When you say the stats can be verified, I surmise you are saying they need to be verified and not that you have.

Correct. I haven't verified and was going off memory. Definitely wrong about ypg when starting in 2020, mea culpa. Dunning-Kruger effect

Not YPC but yards per route run, I didn't really make that clear in my post. I'll try and look those up at some point. But regardless, sample size is so small, I probably shouldn't have even posted it.

No, you said receiving yards per route which was distinct enough to give me pause. Out of ignorance I went with ypc regardless. Just looked that up because I didn't know the definition. It's clearly based on its title. So it's also a bit like usage rate in a 'sort of' way?

Post #: 1930

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 5:51:35 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28619
Status: offline

So how would they count a route for Moss when he used to start a route, get to second gear, then bump it into neutral?

Post #: 1931

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 6:11:49 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I see Smith-Marsette more as a #4 WR, sorta like Aldrick Robinson, catches a deep pass once in a great while.

I don't fully understand Bisi's regression, thought he might be a great, tough #3 someday, sorta like the aging Boldan, to convert 3rd downs. Does Bisi lack the speed to be that ?

Will having an improved OL, lead KC to more conversions with Bisi on 3rd downs ?

Not to go all stats on the board, but I read somewhere, that Bisi was pretty solid on receiving yards per route. Played well when asked to spot start, I think averaging 75 years a game. Both can be verified.

I like SM, both as a deep threat and to develop. But of course, very early to speculate.

As Brad has posted many times, not a lot of pie left in a two TE/2 WR heavy offense for 3rd/4th WRs.

He didn't average anywhere near 75 ypg starting.
2019 - about 20 ypg
2020 - about 50 ypg

And ypc
2019 - 9.5
2020 - 13.5 but on an extremely small sample size with only 14 catches on the year.

When you say the stats can be verified, I surmise you are saying they need to be verified and not that you have.

Correct. I haven't verified and was going off memory. Definitely wrong about ypg when starting in 2020, mea culpa. Dunning-Kruger effect

Not YPC but yards per route run, I didn't really make that clear in my post. I'll try and look those up at some point. But regardless, sample size is so small, I probably shouldn't have even posted it.

No, you said receiving yards per route which was distinct enough to give me pause. Out of ignorance I went with ypc regardless. Just looked that up because I didn't know the definition. It's clearly based on its title. So it's also a bit like usage rate in a 'sort of' way?

I've read it as a more of a way to gauges how effective a WR is (getting open so he's targeted), YAC, and depth of target, all kind of rolled into one.

If I remember right, JJ was one of the top in the league last year in yards per route run (whatever the official title of is). But I haven't verified that since seeing the stat during the last season. I think he ended up 3rd or so?

And in perpetuity, if I say "I think" or "remember", I haven't verified recently

So let the record show.

< Message edited by Pager -- 5/20/2021 6:15:21 PM >

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 1932

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 6:14:14 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28619
Status: offline

Abbreviated career Mt. Rushmore:
Joey Browner
Keith Millard
Korey Stringer RIP
Terry Allen

Most ballyhooed camp guy:
Kip Edwards
Brock Nelson
Moritz Bohringer
Buster Rhymes

Best acquisitions from the USFL:
Anthony Carter
Keith Millard!
Gary Zimmerman

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 5/20/2021 6:18:57 PM >

Post #: 1933

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 6:31:05 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Most ballyhooed camp guy:
Kip Edwards
Brock Nelson
Moritz Bohringer
Buster Rhymes

Kyries Hebert

Post #: 1934

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 6:33:40 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28619
Status: offline

The biggees:
Alan Page
Fran Tarkenton
Randy Moss
Randall McDaniel
5th Bud Grant

Honorables: Joey Browner, Adrian Peterson, John Randle, Ron Yary (the epitome of "draft him and you're set for 10+ years")

Next: Carl Eller, Chuck Foreman, Matt Blair, Paul Krause, Chris Doleman, Cris Carter (the last three IMHO partially benefitted from those around them)

Post #: 1935

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 6:35:55 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28619
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Most ballyhooed camp guy:
Kip Edwards
Brock Nelson
Moritz Bohringer
Buster Rhymes

Kyries Hebert

Ah, old age. He replaces Kip, who (brain cells are firing) was an actual starter. Nice job.

Post #: 1936

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 6:39:41 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28619
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I see Smith-Marsette more as a #4 WR, sorta like Aldrick Robinson, catches a deep pass once in a great while.

I don't fully understand Bisi's regression, thought he might be a great, tough #3 someday, sorta like the aging Boldan, to convert 3rd downs. Does Bisi lack the speed to be that ?

Will having an improved OL, lead KC to more conversions with Bisi on 3rd downs ?

Not to go all stats on the board, but I read somewhere, that Bisi was pretty solid on receiving yards per route. Played well when asked to spot start, I think averaging 75 years a game. Both can be verified.

I like SM, both as a deep threat and to develop. But of course, very early to speculate.

As Brad has posted many times, not a lot of pie left in a two TE/2 WR heavy offense for 3rd/4th WRs.

He didn't average anywhere near 75 ypg starting.
2019 - about 20 ypg
2020 - about 50 ypg

And ypc
2019 - 9.5
2020 - 13.5 but on an extremely small sample size with only 14 catches on the year.

When you say the stats can be verified, I surmise you are saying they need to be verified and not that you have.

Correct. I haven't verified and was going off memory. Definitely wrong about ypg when starting in 2020, mea culpa. Dunning-Kruger effect

Not YPC but yards per route run, I didn't really make that clear in my post. I'll try and look those up at some point. But regardless, sample size is so small, I probably shouldn't have even posted it.

No, you said receiving yards per route which was distinct enough to give me pause. Out of ignorance I went with ypc regardless. Just looked that up because I didn't know the definition. It's clearly based on its title. So it's also a bit like usage rate in a 'sort of' way?

I've read it as a more of a way to gauges how effective a WR is (getting open so he's targeted), YAC, and depth of target, all kind of rolled into one.

If I remember right, JJ was one of the top in the league last year in yards per route run (whatever the official title of is). But I haven't verified that since seeing the stat during the last season. I think he ended up 3rd or so?

And in perpetuity, if I say "I think" or "remember", I haven't verified recently So let the record show.

Interesting.

I hope the Bengals follow the Vikings M.O in week one and sit Chase.

Post #: 1937

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 7:35:28 PM

hagar

Posts: 2757
Joined: 3/3/2014
From: fresburg, ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Hey they Wyoming camping fishing Hagar the horrible is lurking..

Hi dude, wie Gehts?

If you're talking about me, gut danke. If not, I'm still good.
Don't live in Wyoming so not sure if you mean me or someone
else.

Post #: 1938

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 7:59:10 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28619
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hagar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Hey they Wyoming camping fishing Hagar the horrible is lurking..

Hi dude, wie Gehts?

If you're talking about me, gut danke. If not, I'm still good.
Don't live in Wyoming so not sure if you mean me or someone
else.

Where is Fresburg? I know Fresno, CA.

Post #: 1939

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 8:10:20 PM

hagar

Posts: 2757
Joined: 3/3/2014
From: fresburg, ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: hagar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Hey they Wyoming camping fishing Hagar the horrible is lurking..

Hi dude, wie Gehts?

If you're talking about me, gut danke. If not, I'm still good.
Don't live in Wyoming so not sure if you mean me or someone
else.

Where is Fresburg? I know Fresno, CA.

That's the place. Right smack in the middle of Cali with lots of good fishing
and camping. At least there was until our whole damn forest burned down
last year. And Go Lakers!

Post #: 1940

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 9:37:59 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

Will Ragatz
@WillRagatz
·2h
Former Chiefs CB Bashaud Breeland visited the #Vikings today, per @ByNateTaylor.

Breeland in 2020:
- 72.9 PFF coverage grade
- 55.6 completion percentage allowed
- 2 INT, 9 passes defended, 1 FF

Versatile, physical seven-year veteran. Would be a big add for Minnesota.

Post #: 1941

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 10:09:56 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 14017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hagar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Hey they Wyoming camping fishing Hagar the horrible is lurking..

Hi dude, wie Gehts?

If you're talking about me, gut danke. If not, I'm still good.
Don't live in Wyoming so not sure if you mean me or someone
else.

I did mean you.

I honestly thought you lived in big sky country..

_____________________________

**** you all.

Post #: 1942

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/20/2021 11:53:45 PM

kwheats

Posts: 2622
Joined: 2/28/2009
From: NORTHERN MINNESOTA
Status: offline

Haven't herd from Big Sky lately have we?

Post #: 1943

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/21/2021 3:23:46 AM

marty

Posts: 13049
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Does Bisi lack the speed of an aging Anquan Boldin ?

Boldin had great speed when in Arizona. In Baltimore, the aging Boldin had the quickness to get open, and still had a great catching radius.

Can Olabisi do similar things for the Vikings ? Does he lack the quickness or hands ? Or is it unlikely Cousins targets him much on 3rd downs ?

Or is it possible that Olabisi is a great target for 3rd downs, but along the lines of what Brad stated, Jefferson and Thielen [and the TEs] will catch a lot of them, a lot more 3rd down conversion catches, than what the Raven's #1 and #2 WRs caught on their SB run.

< Message edited by marty -- 5/21/2021 3:25:30 AM >

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 1944

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/21/2021 6:48:01 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Does Bisi lack the speed of an aging Anquan Boldin ?

Boldin had great speed when in Arizona. In Baltimore, the aging Boldin had the quickness to get open, and still had a great catching radius.

Can Olabisi do similar things for the Vikings ? Does he lack the quickness or hands ? Or is it unlikely Cousins targets him much on 3rd downs ?

Or is it possible that Olabisi is a great target for 3rd downs, but along the lines of what Brad stated, Jefferson and Thielen [and the TEs] will catch a lot of them, a lot more 3rd down conversion catches, than what the Raven's #1 and #2 WRs caught on their SB run.

Bisi 4.51 40
Bolden 4.71 40

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1945

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/21/2021 7:27:14 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Will Ragatz
@WillRagatz
·2h
Former Chiefs CB Bashaud Breeland visited the #Vikings today, per @ByNateTaylor.

Breeland in 2020:
- 72.9 PFF coverage grade
- 55.6 completion percentage allowed
- 2 INT, 9 passes defended, 1 FF

Versatile, physical seven-year veteran. Would be a big add for Minnesota.

+1

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1946

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/21/2021 8:04:28 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27433
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The biggees:
Alan Page
Fran Tarkenton
Randy Moss
Randall McDaniel
5th Bud Grant

Honorables: Joey Browner, Adrian Peterson, John Randle, Ron Yary (the epitome of "draft him and you're set for 10+ years")

Next: Carl Eller, Chuck Foreman, Matt Blair, Paul Krause, Chris Doleman, Cris Carter (the last three IMHO partially benefitted from those around them)

I like the list....might want to throw in a 5 time All-Pro (Kevin Williams) in the next list and maybe Jared Allen too.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 5/21/2021 8:05:52 AM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 1947

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/21/2021 8:43:17 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12177
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Will Ragatz
@WillRagatz
·2h
Former Chiefs CB Bashaud Breeland visited the #Vikings today, per @ByNateTaylor.

Breeland in 2020:
- 72.9 PFF coverage grade
- 55.6 completion percentage allowed
- 2 INT, 9 passes defended, 1 FF

Versatile, physical seven-year veteran. Would be a big add for Minnesota.

+1

Maybe Gladney not in the clear.

Breeland >> Gladney

I'm thinking this won't be some cheap 2-3M deal. Probably in the 4-6M range.

Post #: 1948

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/21/2021 10:18:49 AM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 14017
Status: offline

I guess if we add more bodies at CB, then Zimmer will be happy and we can see if brad’s defensive catch all actually has any validity in a passing heavy, 3WR sets, throw 45+ times a game, Modern NFL.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/pass-attempts-per-game

_____________________________

**** you all.

Post #: 1949

RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/21/2021 10:20:44 AM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 14017
Status: offline

Wish you could draft strictly on that stat…

What is the most pass attempts in an NFL game?
Drew Bledsoe has made the most pass attempts in a game, with 70 attempts against the Vikings on November 13, 1994.

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 5/21/2021 10:23:23 AM >

_____________________________

**** you all.

Post #: 1950