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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:19:05 AM

Bill Johanesen

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It’s like Spielman was COVID and we’ve got some long haul symptoms. Going to need a personnel influx and transition from the big money vets.

The “see what we’ve got” season.

JC in the house….

Post #: 451

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:21:26 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19082
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

It’s like Spielman was COVID and we’ve got some long haul symptoms. Going to need a personnel influx and transition from the big money vets.

The “see what we’ve got” season.

JC in the house….

Couldn't agree more! Start playing young guys and see what we have. Time to purge the roster as much as possible. High priced ineffective aging vets gotta go.

Post #: 452

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:22:28 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19082
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

Too many veterans on this team that only know how to do one thing well. Lose.

Post #: 453

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:33:58 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26405
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly.

On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 454

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:35:41 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 44331
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly.

On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times.

I see no indication that this defense will get better.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 455

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:36:35 AM

Karl Juhnke

Posts: 12526
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: offline

I said it before the game (though I have no written proof of it

) that I wouldn’t be surprised if Philly came out and punched us in the mouth. Then the big test of this team will be how they react to that.

Well they did punch us. And our reaction was we never really got up off the canvas. So we failed that test. Still I won’t overreact too much. They probably aren’t as good as they looked against GB or as bad as they looked against Philly. We can probably put away all the hyperbole for now and settle in to what was most likely all along: That this is probably a team whose ceiling is 10-ish wins and maybe fighting and scratching into the playoffs.

Philly exposed a couple of things last night. Mainly, this offense cannot adequately counter a blitz. Copy cat alert. Once the secret is out the whole league takes notice. Either fix it or get used to more of the same.

The other thing…at least in my opinion is, Dalvin Cook is a nice back but is no longer anything special. Shelf life is so short at RB. I’m not saying he isn’t still valuable and can’t still be productive, but he shouldn’t be featured. He a cog. One of several.

Post #: 456

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:37:14 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16429
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline

I was in the clean house crowd and was disappointed to see them run most of it back but willing to give them a chance and will still give them more of a chance before I bury them.

Dalvin, Harrison, Eric, Adam, Patrick (minus the blocked FG), all looked a step or two slow tonight. Kirk was disappointing as well, especially in the 2nd half when the rush was dialed up.

I think we lost the battle of the LOS on both sides of the ball and it's pretty tough to win when that happens. Their skilled position players seemed better that ours too.

We never really made things very difficult for Hurts. Not much rush or close coverage. He had lots of time to find wide open guys.

A lot of work to do.

_____________________________

"You guys are true athletes!"

--twinsfan

Post #: 457

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:46:34 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19082
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

I said it before the game (though I have no written proof of it) that I wouldn’t be surprised if Philly came out and punched us in the mouth. Then the big test of this team will be how they react to that.

Well they did punch us. And our reaction was we never really got up off the canvas. So we failed that test. Still I won’t overreact too much. They probably aren’t as good as they looked against GB or as bad as they looked against Philly. We can probably put away all the hyperbole for now and settle in to what was most likely all along: That this is probably a team whose ceiling is 10-ish wins and maybe fighting and scratching into the playoffs.

Philly exposed a couple of things last night. Mainly, this offense cannot adequately counter a blitz. Copy cat alert. Once the secret is out the whole league takes notice. Either fix it or get used to more of the same.

The other thing…at least in my opinion is, Dalvin Cook is a nice back but is no longer anything special. Shelf life is so short at RB. I’m not saying he isn’t still valuable and can’t still be productive, but he shouldn’t be featured. He a cog. One of several.

Agree with everything except the 10 wins part. It looks like we have bad personnel for a 3-4 defense and that won't change this year. Hard to win even 8 games with a defense this bad. Even week 1 the run defense was atrocious. Seems like a 7 win team as I'm sure they'll win a few that are unexpected.

Post #: 458

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:48:09 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26405
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly.

On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times.

I see no indication that this defense will get better.

The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep.

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 459

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:51:21 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19082
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly.

On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times.

I see no indication that this defense will get better.

The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep.

I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history.

Post #: 460

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:52:02 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 27586
Status: offline

PFF Grades are out!
- Wright (P), 100.
- Everyone on D and Cousins, 0.
- Rest of offense, 14.

Post #: 461

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:54:35 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 27586
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly.

On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times.

I see no indication that this defense will get better.

The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep.

I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history.

He has no injury excuses so the fallback is the opponent is “elite”.

We MADE them elite (for a game).

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 9/20/2022 7:55:46 AM >

Post #: 462

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:54:50 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26405
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly.

On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times.

I see no indication that this defense will get better.

The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep.

I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history.

Evans/Peterson can't cover Watkins, Smith, or Brown .

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 463

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:56:48 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19082
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly.

On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times.

I see no indication that this defense will get better.

The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep.

I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history.

Evans/Peterson can't cover Watkins, Smith, or Brown .

I'm not disagreeing with you. But if that's our plan going forward fire up the draft thread because we're gonna get a high pick.

Post #: 464

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 8:01:01 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26405
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly.

On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times.

I see no indication that this defense will get better.

The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep.

I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history.

He was no injury excuses so the fallback is the opponent is “elite”.

We MADE them elite (for a game).

They were a playoff team last year that added AJ Brown, Jordan Davis in the draft, and James Bradbury. They are Super Bowl contenders.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 465

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 8:02:47 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26405
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly.

On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times.

I see no indication that this defense will get better.

The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep.

I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history.

Evans/Peterson can't cover Watkins, Smith, or Brown .

I'm not disagreeing with you. But if that's our plan going forward fire up the draft thread because we're gonna get a high pick.

Booth, Evans, Cine, and the rookie LB will improve the defense but it has been said that the defense is going to be a work in progress.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 466

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 8:04:26 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19082
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly.

On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times.

I see no indication that this defense will get better.

The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep.

I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history.

He was no injury excuses so the fallback is the opponent is “elite”.

We MADE them elite (for a game).

They were a playoff team last year that added AJ Brown, Jordan Davis in the draft, and James Bradbury. They are Super Bowl contenders.

Super Bowl contenders?? Well I guess it's possible in what looks like a weak NFC this year.

Post #: 467

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 8:05:13 AM

Murph

Posts: 1934
Joined: 4/20/2008
From: PNW
Status: offline

On the road in the playoffs against a top defense; I have zero confidence in our QB, defense or coaches.

Except our punter.

Our defense is plain bad with a bad coordinator.

Our offense will look great against average to below average defenses, especially at home but against a better than average defense, especially on the road; we saw the result last night.

_____________________________

Hey Wilf's, let's build a "Perennial Super Bowl contender" not a "perennial playoff contender".

Post #: 468

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 8:10:52 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19082
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Murph

On the road in the playoffs against a top defense; I have zero confidence in our QB, defense or coaches.

Except our punter.

Our defense is plain bad with a bad coordinator.

Our offense will look great against average to below average defenses, especially at home but against a better than average defense, especially on the road; we saw the result last night.

Agreed. Luckily Green Bay went full retard in game 1 and didn't continue to run. Luckily Rodgers threw a fit the whole game after the first offensive snap of his season. Loved beating them down but let's not kid ourselves. This defense is awful!

Post #: 469

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 8:15:06 AM

marty

Posts: 12685
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

I had Philly winning 11 games and winning their division, which makes them a contender. Just don't call them elite Phil, and don't call them or their WRs great, they're just good.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 470

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 8:18:44 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26405
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I had Philly winning 11 games and winning their division, which makes them a contender. Just don't call them elite Phil, and don't call them or their WRs great, they're just good.

AJ Brown is just good? Devante Smith is just good? Goeddert is just good? What are your thoughts on Hurts?

What are your thoughts on OBJ?

I saw preseason hype from many that the Eagles are a contender.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 471

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 8:19:16 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19082
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

Calling them elite after squeaking past the Lions and beating the worst primetime football team in the last 15 years is way premature imo. Will they win the division? Yeah I think so.

Post #: 472

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 8:19:22 AM

marty

Posts: 12685
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Richard, I think you may be over-reacting a little bit, I still think this team will win 11 games.

Just like people that thought JJ would win MVP and get 2000 yards, well teams adjust.

KOC is a good HC, and I think he will adjust, and get the defense to be serviceable. Donatell worked with Fangio, so he must know the importance of being agressive, and must realize his mistake in this game. He will either get more aggressive, or will be fired mid-season.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 473

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 8:22:17 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19082
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Richard, I think you may be over-reacting a little bit, I still think this team will win 11 games.

Just like people that thought JJ would win MVP and get 2000 yards, well teams adjust.

KOC is a good HC, and I think he will adjust, and get the defense to be serviceable. Donatell worked with Fangio, so he must know the importance of being agressive, and must realize his mistake in this game. He will either get more aggressive, or will be fired mid-season.

He made the same mistakes the entire game with no adjustments whatsoever. Sorry it's hard to feel optimistic about that.

Post #: 474

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 8:22:36 AM

JC2022

Posts: 169
Joined: 9/20/2022
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

The Vikings defense will get better; it is early and they were at Philly.

On offense it was a struggle to get anyone outside of Jeffererson, Mundt, and Irv the ball last night which caused Cousins to force it to Jefferson and Irv at times.

I see no indication that this defense will get better.

The Eagles have an elite team; if we faced them in 6-8 games it would have been closer but I know Booth, Cine, Evans, and the rookie LB will be put into the game more as the season rolls on and will start making plays. It seemed like after the deep pass for a TD they just dropped back deep.

I don't think they're elite at all and we played that lame shell coverage before the deep pass. We must have thought that Hurts was physically incapable of throwing a football with how we lined up against him. I think he's solid but not even close to elite. They just happened to play 2 train wreck franchises to start the season and Detroit is playing better than us in recent history.

Agreed

In the 2nd half the Vikings D only really gave up one drive and that ended with the blocked punt. The problem with getting back into the game was Cousins panicking and throwing terrible passes.

I love Cook but he didn't have any explosion last night. Even big guys were able to stay with him.

Both defenses made halftime adjustments and that pretty much ended the scoring. Hurts, other than the one middle screen the RB tipped up into the air, avoided turnovers. He did not play great in the 2nd half and made some bad reads.

Cousins would start to move the team but at the slightest pressure his accuracy went out the window. I don't think he even faced great pressure - just normal NFL pressure and he went to pieces.

On the Vikes TD drive, the Eagles just sat back in a soft defense all the way down the field.

But on the turnover drives, the DBs and even LBs played much tighter coverage

Post #: 475