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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 2:13:07 PM

Lars

Posts: 11418
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline

So, let's just assume you could get Cousins off the roster now, who is your realistic starter for next year?

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<this space for rent>

Post #: 4801

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 2:19:23 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12178
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

So, let's just assume you could get Cousins off the roster now, who is your realistic starter for next year?

Late 1st rookie
Mullens
Garropolo
Trubisky
Heineke
Drew Lock

That's why you keep Cousins till current deal runs out, extend JJ and make a huge effort to find a mobile QBOTF.

Post #: 4802

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 2:21:32 PM

Lars

Posts: 11418
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

So, let's just assume you could get Cousins off the roster now, who is your realistic starter for next year?

Late 1st rookie
Mullens
Garropolo
Trubisky
Heineke
Drew Lock

That's why you keep Cousins till current deal runs out, extend JJ and make a huge effort to find a mobile QBOTF.

BINGO again.

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<this space for rent>

Post #: 4803

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 2:22:40 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27446
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

People around here are forgetting that a tight end has to do more than catch passes. Hockenson is not a great blocking tight end, which is why the Lions may have given up on him. For what it's worth, they were better without him.

He's not a generational anything. That's just silly talk. He's a good receiver. Lets leave it at that.

Hock had 10 catches for 129 yesterday and is probably the reason we were still in that game in the 2nd half.

Offenses win these days with the passing game.
We have a stud in JJ.
Hock I'd say is just below the elite TE in the league (Kelce/Kittle).

Irv is a disaster.
Thielen is done imo (not a bad career for a sunglass salesman though ... huh)
KJ is just a guy.
Nailor might contribute but hard to say.

JJ/Hock are the primary parts to making this offense run... but they need 1 more guy.

It depends on your metric. He'll be a great pick in fantasy football next season. He won't help you win a game by running the ball when it matters in a real game.

I agree you have to be able to pass the football. But you also need to be able to pick up a first down and control the clock when it matters. The Vikings are a pass-happy team. The Niners are a legitimate threat. Both teams have tight ends that can put up pretty numbers. One team has a tight end that can play in the mud.

Mundt is our mudder....Kittle is starting to miss a lot of games.

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4804

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 2:54:01 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28647
Status: offline

Shelley is the only defender I want to see return, but he is a FA.

They could cut every normal starter and that would be fine.

Keep Tonga, Jones.

Hope Cine and Booth return healthy and progress.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 1/16/2023 3:07:18 PM >

Post #: 4805

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 3:01:03 PM

drviking

Posts: 36160
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Dakota
Status: offline

the time move KFC was last year,

they chose to keep him...maybe they thought our roster was closer than most of did...

they hit their top tier from what is/was possible with this group, IMO, probably a 9 or 10 win team with a few bounces to get to 13 wins...

so, where are we now?

it was a fun, but relatively unproductive year, we are no closer to the ultimate goal, and in fact, i believe next year we will be further removed...we tried to steal one final year with this D, but it is very apparent it will be a full rebuild

for me....

EVERYTHING is on the table, NOBODY is untouchable...

I would have preferred this scenario last year, but i am ready to rip the band-aid off to get to the next era of Viking players

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"Only one thing left to do..."

Post #: 4806

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 3:02:58 PM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Trade Cousins and then trade for a guy that played a few games in FCS three years ago?

If that doesn’t work tank?

Roflmao, and if you end up with the next Murray, Donald, Mayfield, Rosen, ect you do it again?

Um. No thanks.

Kirk was pressured on 49% of throws yesterday according to the stat geeks.

< Message edited by ronhextall -- 1/16/2023 3:11:09 PM >

Post #: 4807

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 3:11:35 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28647
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Trade Cousins and then trade for a guy that played a few games in FCS three years ago?

If that doesn’t work tank?

Roflmao, and if you end up with the next Murray, Donald, Mayfield, Rosen, ect you do it again?

Um. No thanks.

You keep mentioning those same QBs (do you cut and paste them?) but fail to even once mention you could end up with Mahomes, Allen, etc.

So risk adverse.

No wonder you defend Cousins, you like throwing short of the stick.

Post #: 4808

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 3:13:14 PM

beo

Posts: 2396
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

Legitimate question... has this franchise ever drafted a QB with a top 10 pick?

I don't think so.

They typically are competitive and don't easily have that option.

Post #: 4809

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 3:14:47 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28647
Status: offline

The minute Cousins extension was announced last year, it brought to light the franchise was being set back two years.

And rather than have a pretty high draft pick, it more or less assured we'd pick low enough to not have the ammo to move up. And tied up untold millions in cap. And while we'd see him implode under pressure, I figured it would be his normal stuff not something that left the football world shaking their head at and saying ah those Vikings will be the Vikings.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 1/16/2023 3:19:03 PM >

Post #: 4810

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 3:17:12 PM

beo

Posts: 2396
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The minute Cousins two year extension was announced last year, it brought to light the franchise was being set back two years.

And rather than have a pretty high draft pick, it more or less assured we'd pick low enough to not have the ammo to move up. And tied up untold millions in cap.

Going back just a bit more... the trade for Sam Bradford when Teddy went down was a huge blow to the future... would have been a perfect time to sacrafice a year and just journey man QB it for a year...

Post #: 4811

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 3:23:48 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28647
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The minute Cousins two year extension was announced last year, it brought to light the franchise was being set back two years.

And rather than have a pretty high draft pick, it more or less assured we'd pick low enough to not have the ammo to move up. And tied up untold millions in cap.

Going back just a bit more... the trade for Sam Bradford when Teddy went down was a huge blow to the future... would have been a perfect time to sacrafice a year and just journey man QB it for a year...

Right. Which they did anyway a year later with Keenum.

And we lost 1st and 4th rounders to Philly in the Bradford trade. Picks that probably helped Philly become what they are.

Post #: 4812

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 3:25:00 PM

drviking

Posts: 36160
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Dakota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The minute Cousins two year extension was announced last year, it brought to light the franchise was being set back two years.

And rather than have a pretty high draft pick, it more or less assured we'd pick low enough to not have the ammo to move up. And tied up untold millions in cap.

Going back just a bit more... the trade for Sam Bradford when Teddy went down was a huge blow to the future... would have been a perfect time to sacrafice a year and just journey man QB it for a year...

Right. Which they did anyway a year later with Keenum.

And we lost 1st and 4th rounders to Philly in the Bradford trade. Picks that probably helped Philly become what they are.

yep, our leadership seems ok with good not great

and its exactly what we get

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"Only one thing left to do..."

Post #: 4813

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 3:25:43 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77942
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Shelley is the only defender I want to see return, but he is a FA.

They could cut every normal starter and that would be fine.

Keep Tonga, Jones.

Hope Cine and Booth return healthy and progress.

Funny for anyone on the "we should've hired Ryan Pace instead" bandwagon.

The fringe guys we poached from the Bears both look like they could be long-time pieces for us. The guys they got from us failed miserably.

Post #: 4814

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 3:33:50 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

The no trade clause makes a Cousins deal a non-issue. He’s here in 2023. That does not mean you turtle up on the position.

You still go all in on with a draft pick and take a stab at a reclamation project to compete with Mullens.

At some point you are going to need the cajones … as a franchise … to shoot higher than ‘almost good enough’.

There are a lot of QBs that would not have played as well as Cousins played during the season or even yesterday … I think not many others would have thrown that last pass. The shocker for me was that it was no shocker. Cousins does his best to execute the playcall, thats only part of it.

Post #: 4815

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 3:36:09 PM

drviking

Posts: 36160
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: South Dakota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Shelley is the only defender I want to see return, but he is a FA.

They could cut every normal starter and that would be fine.

Keep Tonga, Jones.

Hope Cine and Booth return healthy and progress.

Funny for anyone on the "we should've hired Ryan Pace instead" bandwagon.

The fringe guys we poached from the Bears both look like they could be long-time pieces for us. The guys they got from us failed miserably.

i have my concerns with KWesi, but so far its more promising than the bears situation...

we will see, too early to tell either way

but grandstanding is more fun

I KNEW ALL ALONG KOC WAS TRASH!

_____________________________

"Only one thing left to do..."

Post #: 4816

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 3:48:41 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27446
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Shelley is the only defender I want to see return, but he is a FA.

They could cut every normal starter and that would be fine.

Keep Tonga, Jones.

Hope Cine and Booth return healthy and progress.

Funny for anyone on the "we should've hired Ryan Pace instead" bandwagon.

The fringe guys we poached from the Bears both look like they could be long-time pieces for us. The guys they got from us failed miserably.

Poles I believe not Pace but no matter. Point is still the same.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4817

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 3:58:58 PM

JC2022

Posts: 169
Joined: 9/20/2022
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Drafting Kyler Murray may have a lot to do with it...I think he wanted out.

Anyone still on the Tua (3-5 concussions), Kyler (knee), Lamar (knee), Lance (Broken Ankle), etc. train?
That is why I would be out on Fields also...they have to be a passer first, runner second.

Even Hurts is a concern

The mobile QBs need to use the THREAT of running more than they actually run.

No matter how big you are, a QB running constantly gets broken up. Daunte and Cam were huge - both were done early

The amount of designed runs for these franchise guys blows my mind... it's like they are trying to get Allen/Hurts/Lamar hurt at times.

see RGIII !!!

Post #: 4818

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 4:00:13 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

Funny how we never had wide open receivers yesterday even though the Giants had two DB's covering JJ.

Yet we never doubled any of their receivers and they were running all over the field WIDE open.

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Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 4819

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 4:10:29 PM

Rob Viking

Posts: 2069
Joined: 8/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Fire Donatell.

Trade Hunter and Cousins.

Try to draft a franchise QB this season, if you're not able, you go with Mullens and tank the season. Should be able to get the top pick in next year's draft, with the schedule the Vikings have.

I"m on board with trading Hunter for draft picks, but Cousins has a not trade clause. So not sure how that would play out.
Guess they could get him to waive it.

I'd still explore Hunter for Trey Lance and maybe a pick?
Hunter give San Fran a defensive piece to make a run the next couple years.
He'd give them a hell of a DE in their rotation.

Vikings get a legitimate prospect who's stock will never be lower due to injury.

Jury is out on Lance. I don't think he'll be any good but we need to try something.

Post #: 4820

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 4:19:27 PM

Rob Viking

Posts: 2069
Joined: 8/8/2007
Status: offline

I would take a chance on Anthony Richardson if he's available in the late 1st. We'll know more around draft time where he may wind up. Who knows with many QB hungry teams he could go in the top 10 with a great combine.

Post #: 4821

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 4:26:58 PM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Trade Cousins and then trade for a guy that played a few games in FCS three years ago?

If that doesn’t work tank?

Roflmao, and if you end up with the next Murray, Donald, Mayfield, Rosen, ect you do it again?

Um. No thanks.

You keep mentioning those same QBs (do you cut and paste them?) but fail to even once mention you could end up with Mahomes, Allen, etc.

So risk adverse.

No wonder you defend Cousins, you like throwing short of the stick.

What has trey Lance done to deserve any real consideration as the answer ?

You want to go all in and trade up into the top 2-3 picks? Fine. Probably need to be Jefferson traded. That would be ballsy for sure. Cousins doesn’t stop the franchise from doing it.

Maybe the Beats would trade their #1 pick for Jefferson and a couple first rounders. My guess is tanking and being awful for 2-3 years doesn’t interest Jefferson.

< Message edited by ronhextall -- 1/16/2023 4:38:06 PM >

Post #: 4822

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 4:40:09 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27446
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

Why the JJeff trade talk?

I would draft a qb in the 3-5th round next year and the year after and the year after and.....the year after. Should have done this with the QB position settled.

Trey Lance isn't getting you to the Super Bowl any sooner than what we have.

We need to draft or sign Defense.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 1/16/2023 4:43:06 PM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 4823

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 4:40:56 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28647
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Trade Cousins and then trade for a guy that played a few games in FCS three years ago?

If that doesn’t work tank?

Roflmao, and if you end up with the next Murray, Donald, Mayfield, Rosen, ect you do it again?

Um. No thanks.

You keep mentioning those same QBs (do you cut and paste them?) but fail to even once mention you could end up with Mahomes, Allen, etc.

So risk adverse.

No wonder you defend Cousins, you like throwing short of the stick.

What has trey Lance done to deserve any real consideration as the answer ? Never mentioned Trey Lance, but I wouldn't rule him out as he is basically unproven and might be fine.

You want to go all in and trade up into the top 2-3 picks? Fine. Probably need to be Jefferson traded. That would be ballsy for sure. Cousins doesn’t stop the franchise from doing it. Never said go all in for the top 2-3 picks because we don't have the capital to do so.

Maybe the Beats would trade their #1 pick for Jefferson and a couple first rounders. Maybe do that or some derivative thereof IF there was a top QB prospect.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 1/16/2023 4:42:17 PM >

Post #: 4824

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2023 4:46:06 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28647
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Why the JJeff trade talk?

I would draft a qb in the 3-5th round next year and the year after and the year after and.....the year after. Should have done this with the QB position settled.

Trey Lance isn't getting you to the Super Bowl any sooner than what we have.

We need to draft or sign Defense.

So Trey Lance isn't getting you to the SB but one of a string of 3rd-5th rounders will?

Ah I see you deleted ~ trading players for picks. Good deletion cause nobody is paying our aged vets their salary next year and the rest of the players are just run of the mill types.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 1/16/2023 4:47:56 PM >

Post #: 4825