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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 1:04:30 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

Crush the Pack? Vikes are world-beaters and the board is quiet.

Lose on the road to Philthy? Bunch of bums from owners down to water boys - with the predictable folks coming out of the woodwork to offer their insights.

It was a bad game. Maybe let's allow a bit of the season to unfold before we says it's over?

Some bad: Cousins made a number of bad throws. The Irv drop hurt. OL had no answer for the blitz. The defense played to limit big plays (other than the blown coverage) and was too passive. There was not enough pressure or blizting.

Some good: special teams appear to be pretty solid so far - a nice improvement over recent years.

I had this game as a 7 point loss going in. Had the offense not shit the bed on a couple of those trips then it would have been closer than it was.

*shrugs*

Time to move on to the next week.

Yeah I get that ... its early in the season. I'm sure we will improve in some if not all areas. How much is the question.

That being said, the game perfectly highlighted what we have been seeing from Cousins since he got here. Therefore, an outpouring of angst. Justified. Not knee jerk reaction.

As for the amount of improvement that I was hoping for (from last year) ... that just got beaten, stabbed, and kicked in the head over the weekend.

Then they spat on our dog.

Some things are worth responding to.
Post #: 601
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 1:05:18 PM   
Lars


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From: Midi-chlorians
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Mullens is not the answer.

He's a better emergency QB than Mannion. That's it.


Yup.

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Post #: 602
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 1:06:40 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 4582
Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Phil

Although I would have been tempted to insert Mullens in the 4th quarter, I am hopeful they can work around Kirk's weaknesses, like they attempt to work around the weakness at center.

Whatever it takes to get 11 wins, get into the playoffs and anything can happen.

Just how many weaknesses do you propose we 'work around'?

Can we fly in another defense?
Post #: 603
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 1:13:11 PM   
Lars


Posts: 11347
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

Crush the Pack? Vikes are world-beaters and the board is quiet.

Lose on the road to Philthy? Bunch of bums from owners down to water boys - with the predictable folks coming out of the woodwork to offer their insights.

It was a bad game. Maybe let's allow a bit of the season to unfold before we says it's over?

Some bad: Cousins made a number of bad throws. The Irv drop hurt. OL had no answer for the blitz. The defense played to limit big plays (other than the blown coverage) and was too passive. There was not enough pressure or blizting.

Some good: special teams appear to be pretty solid so far - a nice improvement over recent years.

I had this game as a 7 point loss going in. Had the offense not shit the bed on a couple of those trips then it would have been closer than it was.

*shrugs*

Time to move on to the next week.

Yeah I get that ... its early in the season. I'm sure we will improve in some if not all areas. How much is the question.

That being said, the game perfectly highlighted what we have been seeing from Cousins since he got here. Therefore, an outpouring of angst. Justified. Not knee jerk reaction.

As for the amount of improvement that I was hoping for (from last year) ... that just got beaten, stabbed, and kicked in the head over the weekend.

Then they spat on our dog.

Some things are worth responding to.


Sure. Cousins is what he is. His upside is not awesome, but that game on Monday was surely his "floor". It's not like he is throwing up 3+ INT games all the time....

< Message edited by Lars -- 9/21/2022 1:14:15 PM >


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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 1:29:34 PM   
JC2022

 

Posts: 39
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

How were the route concepts JC? Were there a lot of open looks opposite Jefferson? Just curious what you saw live.


I saw a couple of things

1. I would say on about 1 out of every 3 plays a receiver was open downfield
2. More often than not, Cousins made the wrong read and threw to the guy covered
3. Cousins wore down - he was clearly less sharp in the 2nd half
4. Most of the passes defensed on Cousins were thrown where the DB could make a play on it and not away from the DB
5. He was so inaccurate with the placement of the ball I thought he was injured
Post #: 605
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 1:29:47 PM   
Brad H


Posts: 21363
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From: Parts Unknown
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

If Cousins were to get a grade overall - not for the last game - I would give him a solid "B". He is above average, but that's it. Not poor and certainly not special.

What that means is that you need things to break your way and/or have other folks/units be special to get you over the top and for him to not to play at his lowest level. Right now, I don't see any of the other units playing at that elite level. So what do you get? A team that is slightly above average. The Vikings for most of my life.

If a guy has no ability to win a big game he has no value, IMO. The guy has proven time and time again to be a choker when it matters. He's 2-10 on Monday Night Football the prime time. We've also seen repeatedly that he is a horrific two-minute quarterback. One of the worst in the league over the past two seasons.

I'm not sure how that equates to a "B" grade, but I'm sure you have your reasons. Cousins has some games were he plays at a "B" level, but he is no "B" quarterback on a consistent basis. At-best he's a C-to-C- quarterback.

At this point, I'd rather have Davis Mills.

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Post #: 606
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 1:33:14 PM   
JC2022

 

Posts: 39
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

If Cousins were to get a grade overall - not for the last game - I would give him a solid "B". He is above average, but that's it. Not poor and certainly not special.

What that means is that you need things to break your way and/or have other folks/units be special to get you over the top and for him to not to play at his lowest level. Right now, I don't see any of the other units playing at that elite level. So what do you get? A team that is slightly above average. The Vikings for most of my life.

I don't see this team ever winning a SB with Cousins. With his weaknesses, you would need every other aspect of the team to be the best in the NFL and that is not realistic

It is far more likely the team/franchise wasted years being, not bad, but an also ran and in 3-5 years will have to start all over again anyway with no ring
Post #: 607
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 1:42:34 PM   
David F.


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I'm not going to spam the board with links. Twitter is full of breakdowns of Kirk's panic/decision making problem from Monday's game. Search it out and see for yourselves. It's not good.

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Post #: 608
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 2:10:51 PM   
ronhextall


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Considering his percentage of the salary cap that greatly limits the quality of roster assembled around him, Cousins has to be better than average. He needs to be the #1 reason they win some big games.

Few QB's are capable of it, which is probably why QB's on their rookie deals (or cheaper deals) seem to win a good chunk of Super Bowls lately.

Doesn't really matter what any of us think. We have no control over the next 15 games.
Post #: 609
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 2:55:27 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 17332
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I'm not going to spam the board with links. Twitter is full of breakdowns of Kirk's panic/decision making problem from Monday's game. Search it out and see for yourselves. It's not good.

He was panicking like maybe I've never seen.
Post #: 610
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 3:08:54 PM   
Lars


Posts: 11347
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From: Midi-chlorians
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Yup. Dude is not an elite QB - and to compound that - he played a stinker on Monday. Not much to debate in either category.

And like I said, to win you need an elite QB in the modern NFL. Better get ready to pay massive money to sign one in FA or get one in the draft (the better option).

Until then, the odds say we will get what we have been getting for a long time around here. Makes it hard to get too high or too low. I have modest expectations for this team as far as winning a SB goes - and honestly, that's all that matters to me after watching for decades.

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Post #: 611
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 3:25:15 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 4582
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

Crush the Pack? Vikes are world-beaters and the board is quiet.

Lose on the road to Philthy? Bunch of bums from owners down to water boys - with the predictable folks coming out of the woodwork to offer their insights.

It was a bad game. Maybe let's allow a bit of the season to unfold before we says it's over?

Some bad: Cousins made a number of bad throws. The Irv drop hurt. OL had no answer for the blitz. The defense played to limit big plays (other than the blown coverage) and was too passive. There was not enough pressure or blizting.

Some good: special teams appear to be pretty solid so far - a nice improvement over recent years.

I had this game as a 7 point loss going in. Had the offense not shit the bed on a couple of those trips then it would have been closer than it was.

*shrugs*

Time to move on to the next week.

Yeah I get that ... its early in the season. I'm sure we will improve in some if not all areas. How much is the question.

That being said, the game perfectly highlighted what we have been seeing from Cousins since he got here. Therefore, an outpouring of angst. Justified. Not knee jerk reaction.

As for the amount of improvement that I was hoping for (from last year) ... that just got beaten, stabbed, and kicked in the head over the weekend.

Then they spat on our dog.

Some things are worth responding to.


Sure. Cousins is what he is. His upside is not awesome, but that game on Monday was surely his "floor". It's not like he is throwing up 3+ INT games all the time....

I get where you're coming from ...

Monday was not indicative of his usual production ... those uniformly bad games don't happen very often ...

but the outcome is NOT that much different from his higher performing games.

He has a negative 'it' factor.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 9/21/2022 3:26:55 PM >
Post #: 612
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 3:56:14 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 23387
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I don't know Phil, did you have stiff something for keeping Kirk in there in the fourth quarter against the Eagles ?


I have seen where Kirk's ratings are; apparently after one bad game (Where there was a big drop and Jefferson ran a route wrong for one of the INT) you choose to go with the backup QB moving forward and bench Kirk.

I don't know how else to describe it.

$40-Million. That's all people need to know.


Which is now 10th.

He's a $15-million quarterback. I wouldn't pay him a dime more. Tom Brady makes $25-million.


There isn't a starting qb making 15 and I bet you are aware of that.

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Post #: 613
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 3:57:41 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 23387
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Phil

Although I would have been tempted to insert Mullens in the 4th quarter, I am hopeful they can work around Kirk's weaknesses, like they attempt to work around the weakness at center.

Whatever it takes to get 11 wins, get into the playoffs and anything can happen.


Even though you say that now; Mullens wasn't the preferred backup of the Raiders. Sloter hasn't landed anywhere yet. Lets keep it in perspective.

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Post #: 614
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 3:58:05 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 17332
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I don't know Phil, did you have stiff something for keeping Kirk in there in the fourth quarter against the Eagles ?


I have seen where Kirk's ratings are; apparently after one bad game (Where there was a big drop and Jefferson ran a route wrong for one of the INT) you choose to go with the backup QB moving forward and bench Kirk.

I don't know how else to describe it.

$40-Million. That's all people need to know.


Which is now 10th.

He's a $15-million quarterback. I wouldn't pay him a dime more. Tom Brady makes $25-million.


There isn't a starting qb making 15 and I bet you are aware of that.

Well Hurts makes a lot less I heard. Although I really don't know what he makes
Post #: 615
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 3:59:30 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 17332
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From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
Looks like 1.5 million
Post #: 616
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 4:05:01 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 74195
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I don't know Phil, did you have stiff something for keeping Kirk in there in the fourth quarter against the Eagles ?


I have seen where Kirk's ratings are; apparently after one bad game (Where there was a big drop and Jefferson ran a route wrong for one of the INT) you choose to go with the backup QB moving forward and bench Kirk.

I don't know how else to describe it.

$40-Million. That's all people need to know.


Which is now 10th.

He's a $15-million quarterback. I wouldn't pay him a dime more. Tom Brady makes $25-million.


There isn't a starting qb making 15 and I bet you are aware of that.


There appear to be 13 QBs with a cap number over 15M this year...

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2022
Post #: 617
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 4:06:48 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 17332
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I don't know Phil, did you have stiff something for keeping Kirk in there in the fourth quarter against the Eagles ?


I have seen where Kirk's ratings are; apparently after one bad game (Where there was a big drop and Jefferson ran a route wrong for one of the INT) you choose to go with the backup QB moving forward and bench Kirk.

I don't know how else to describe it.

$40-Million. That's all people need to know.


Which is now 10th.

He's a $15-million quarterback. I wouldn't pay him a dime more. Tom Brady makes $25-million.


There isn't a starting qb making 15 and I bet you are aware of that.


There appear to be 13 QBs with a cap number over 15M this year...

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2022

Maybe none make exactly 15?
Post #: 618
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 4:08:51 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 74195
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I don't know Phil, did you have stiff something for keeping Kirk in there in the fourth quarter against the Eagles ?


I have seen where Kirk's ratings are; apparently after one bad game (Where there was a big drop and Jefferson ran a route wrong for one of the INT) you choose to go with the backup QB moving forward and bench Kirk.

I don't know how else to describe it.

$40-Million. That's all people need to know.


Which is now 10th.

He's a $15-million quarterback. I wouldn't pay him a dime more. Tom Brady makes $25-million.


There isn't a starting qb making 15 and I bet you are aware of that.


There appear to be 13 QBs with a cap number over 15M this year...

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2022

Maybe none make exactly 15?


Caught me on the technicality!
Post #: 619
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 4:12:50 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 17332
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From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
Based on those numbers Brad placed him maybe even a little high.
Post #: 620
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 5:34:28 PM   
Brad H


Posts: 21363
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I don't know Phil, did you have stiff something for keeping Kirk in there in the fourth quarter against the Eagles ?


I have seen where Kirk's ratings are; apparently after one bad game (Where there was a big drop and Jefferson ran a route wrong for one of the INT) you choose to go with the backup QB moving forward and bench Kirk.

I don't know how else to describe it.

$40-Million. That's all people need to know.


Which is now 10th.

He's a $15-million quarterback. I wouldn't pay him a dime more. Tom Brady makes $25-million.


There isn't a starting qb making 15 and I bet you are aware of that.

About half of the starters in the league make less than $15-million.

Jamies Winston
Marcus Mariota
Joe Burrow
Zach Wilson
Tua Tagovailoa
Mitch Trubisky
Jimmy Garoppolo
Justin Herbert
Daniel Jones
Justin Fields
Jacoby Brissett
Mac Jones
Geno Smith
Joe Flacco
Lamar Jackson
Trevor Lawrence
Jalen Hurts

I'd take about 10 of these guys over Cousins.

If a guy is making $35-40-million to play quarterback, he better damned well have all the tools in the tool chest and be winning games in the final two minutes like he is taking candy from a baby.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 9/21/2022 5:41:00 PM >


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Post #: 621
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 5:43:01 PM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 23387
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
Ok there are some but who did we have any shot at that is better than Kirk? I think we should have drafted Willis in the third this year. Many will break the bank shortly.

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Post #: 622
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 2:05:20 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 8748
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
.
.
harrison smith is still on the injury report, concussion - he had eleven solo tackles on Monday....

booth is still on the injury report....

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Post #: 623
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 9:05:54 AM   
ronhextall


Posts: 5869
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

Yup. Dude is not an elite QB - and to compound that - he played a stinker on Monday. Not much to debate in either category.

And like I said, to win you need an elite QB in the modern NFL. Better get ready to pay massive money to sign one in FA or get one in the draft (the better option).

Until then, the odds say we will get what we have been getting for a long time around here. Makes it hard to get too high or too low. I have modest expectations for this team as far as winning a SB goes - and honestly, that's all that matters to me after watching for decades.


If the new brain trust thinks they see one in the upcoming draft I would have no complaints if they traded away a bunch of picks to climb up and get him. In this time period of the NFL the front office will be judged by the QB they acquire. Nobody is going to care if it takes 3 future #1's if you land the next Mahomes.

Nobody is going to care if you draft the next Ponder either. No matter how little capital it costs.

< Message edited by ronhextall -- 9/22/2022 9:25:57 AM >
Post #: 624
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 9:58:04 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 21363
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Ok there are some but who did we have any shot at that is better than Kirk? I think we should have drafted Willis in the third this year. Many will break the bank shortly.

Hurts was drafted 53rd in 2020. We could have had him.

Lamar Jackson was drafted 32nd in 2018. We could have had him.

For starters.

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