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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 1:14:52 PM   
Steve Lentz


Posts: 36323
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

The lack of adjustment on defense tells you how the coaches feel about the players. As bad as it was … and it was real bad … even with Philly neutralizing themselves in the 2nd half with penalties … we just dont have the horses to tighten things up and be much more aggressive.The spacing we ran with looked like we were playing with 6 defenders at a time. Sickening.

Playing against a team with a banged up OL and weak WRs is one thing, a good nfc team (just above avg against the good afc teams) really showed how toothless we are.

I’m sure we will improve a bit (on d) and play some teams we are better schemed for … hang in there some games … and its possible our rookies will see some time and start developing for the future … but thinking they will somehow improve on our deficiencies this year is unreasonable. Clearly we need help on all levels.

It was a bend but don't break approach. Truth-be-told, giving up 24 points in an NFL game is not that bad. Our offense had plenty of opportunities to make it a game and rarely sniffed the end zone. A missed catch by Smith was a sure TD. The defense gave them an opportunity to cash in late in the game. An interception followed. There was ZERO firepower from the offense. Bad decisions from the QB. Bad throws from the QB. Little to no attempts at running the ball.

The truth is, I'm more concerned about the offense than the defense. KOC doesn't look like he knows what he is doing, to me. A young kid that has an idea, but doesn't know how to adjust on the fly. I think the same of the Chargers' coach. That guy is totally clueless.

The truth is we have zero idea if the guy can coach. While I like that he has an offensive background he didn't even call plays in LA. I hope he does well but does anyone really know if he's up to the task? Way too early to tell. Seems like a good guy though.

A good coach understands his personnel and makes adjustments on the fly. The defense made zero adjustments last night. The offense made adjustments, but too late in the game and the QB was way off his game.

This isn't a video game. There needs to be some balance. It took the Eagles all of seven days to figure out what Vikings had done in week one on offense.

That's what was so alarming to me Brad. The ZERO adjustments on D was utterly insane. After Hurts hit 12 in a row to start it wasn't enough? Those were the most basic throws any qb in this league will have to make and wide open! Agree that the offense was probably a bigger letdown. I thought they should be capable of scoring 27 or so. Not even close!

I'm going to give the defense a pass based on one thing........the Eagles only scored 24 points.

I thought Jalen Hurts was amazingly good. His timing with his receivers was impeccable and his ball placement was at a very high level. We aren't going to see that kind of precision every week.

Agree.
Jalen looked about as good as I've seen him. He is extremely mobile and was pretty accurate. I didn't see us winning in Philly on a Monday night.
That said I saw little in adjustments from the defense and a poorly operated offense.

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Post #: 551
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 1:24:29 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

Hi Guys

Long time

I was at the game and Cousins was brutally bad. The Eagles are not a powerhouse by any stretch but the moment they put any pressure on Cousins he threw up some TERRIBLE balls.

He had 3 picks, should have had 6.

Hope everyone is well

JC

Agreed. It was amazing how many bad decisions he made. Twice the announcers blamed Irv Smith for not getting separation when Cousins threw it to him and he was covered like a book. On both plays the running back was wide open in the flat and could have run for 20-30 yards. They were just bad decisions and a quarterback not seeing the entire field.

I said it after last weeks game. The Vikings looked like a One Trick Pony in week one. It was Justin Jefferson or nothing. The coach wasn't getting anyone else involved.

It wasn't long ago that Dalvin Cook and Adam Thielen were considered by many to be elite players. Thielen didn't even get a pass thrown his way until late third/early fourth quarter. Dalvin Cook had six carries. We had a total of eight carries from our running backs. That is not a winning recipe.


Detroit ran all over the Eagles the week before yet the Vikes did not stick with the run

Thielen didn't seem to put in real work like he used to do. I didn't see the high motor guy

"They were just bad decisions and a quarterback not seeing the entire field."

It is all mental with Cousins. He can make the throws. But last night, his out patterns took FOREVER to get to the sidelines! I thought his arm was hurt because of the lack of steam on balls. Even slow Eagles DBs were almost able to jump those passes

If Cousins arm is not hurt, his mental block made his throws hesitant and weak

Welcome back JC

Cousins is who he always has been. A tin man that can't handle pressure.

Nobody can fix what is unfixable. At least all this MVP bs will stop.

I fell asleep at halftime which sounds like that was a real good thing.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 552
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 3:13:56 PM   
kevinemmer


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From: Bozeman, MT
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Richard, I think you may be over-reacting a little bit, I still think this team will win 11 games.

Just like people that thought JJ would win MVP and get 2000 yards, well teams adjust.

KOC is a good HC, and I think he will adjust, and get the defense to be serviceable. Donatell worked with Fangio, so he must know the importance of being agressive, and must realize his mistake in this game. He will either get more aggressive, or will be fired mid-season.

He made the same mistakes the entire game with no adjustments whatsoever. Sorry it's hard to feel optimistic about that.


He seemed brain dead.
Reminded me of Frazer when we were getting our asses kicked.
Flat-line, no changes, automaton.
Post #: 553
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 3:27:34 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 20149
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online 		At least, for now, we don't have to worry about ST's. They been pretty down right dominant.
Post #: 554
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 3:31:21 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 20149
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Not an excuse but if JJ runs the right route on that first INT, it's 24-21 and a whole different ballgame. Cousins was bad but that D


If we start down this path then we need to start subtracting any positive play that worked out in spite of a mistake like a blown coverage or a circus-type catch etc...



For sure. I don't want to be that guy. Just saying that if 2, what should be, routine plays by guys (JJ going the wrong way and Irv ) ----that's a 24-21 ballgame and then who knows.

To your point though. They got hit with a ton of penalties that should have been in our favor. I say should because they marched it down our throats anyway. I was actually hoping we started declining them. a first on 3rd and 3 or 4 is understandable. Constantly giving a first on 3rd and 14 is demoralizing.
Post #: 555
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 4:30:10 PM   
bohumm

 

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

I just had a chance to listen to KOC's post game comments. I don't think he coached the same game we all watched.

Honestly, I know we won a big game in week one, but I haven't seem much in two weeks. It seems like Justin Jefferson or nothing. That's not a recipe for success. ZERO running game in two weeks.

Can't wait to see you post this 48 more times before Sunday....
Post #: 556
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 4:46:48 PM   
bohumm

 

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline 		What a delight when a day after thread is dominated by Brad, Richard, and...JC? Lot's of repetition, and eventually someone needs to find a girlfriend, or is accused of being a child molester or a slave catcher...

At least Richard is a consistent presence. Why are the other two here?
Post #: 557
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 4:52:46 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9898
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline 		.
.
we gave hurts wide-open passes...he'd run out, get a good look, and his receivers were just sitting in zone seams waiting for him to throw the ball...sure, there was that deep ball over the top, but for the most part, his players were stationary....

his targets averaged 4.2yards of separation...peterson was just standing there five yards off several times....

harrison smith on concussion protocol...they were just trying to give evans some playing time when they removed dantzler....

i say, get cine, booth, evans, and asamoah in the game now....

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Post #: 558
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 4:57:21 PM   
bohumm

 

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline 		Metellus went in before Cine. For the first time, I'm slightly concerned about the first-round pick.
Post #: 559
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 6:21:27 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
we gave hurts wide-open passes...he'd run out, get a good look, and his receivers were just sitting in zone seams waiting for him to throw the ball...sure, there was that deep ball over the top, but for the most part, his players were stationary....

his targets averaged 4.2yards of separation...peterson was just standing there five yards off several times....

harrison smith on concussion protocol...they were just trying to give evans some playing time when they removed dantzler....

i say, get cine, booth, evans, and asamoah in the game now....

Are you saying they're better than what was out there but ... as horribly as we played ... we made the conscious decision to keep them off the field?

More likely ... when the coaches think they are ready ... they'll get some playing time.

(Or maybe you think KOC is as bad as Zimmer in terms of snuffing out rookie promise ...)

I doubt these guys will make much of an impact early ... even if they turn out to be players as we go along.
Post #: 560
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 6:37:49 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12705
Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
we gave hurts wide-open passes...he'd run out, get a good look, and his receivers were just sitting in zone seams waiting for him to throw the ball...sure, there was that deep ball over the top, but for the most part, his players were stationary....

his targets averaged 4.2yards of separation...peterson was just standing there five yards off several times....

harrison smith on concussion protocol...they were just trying to give evans some playing time when they removed dantzler....

i say, get cine, booth, evans, and asamoah in the game now....

Probably not a bad idea to rotate PP, Booth, Evans and Dantzler. With Dantzler getting the most playing time.

Asamoah is a special teamer right now. Not even close to unseating Kendricks or Hicks.
Post #: 561
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 6:43:02 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Metellus went in before Cine. For the first time, I'm slightly concerned about the first-round pick.

Metellus before Cine, Evans before Booth.

Our first two picks have been dinged up and missed some practice time. I hope thats all it is.
Post #: 562
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 6:51:56 PM   
bohumm

 

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Metellus went in before Cine. For the first time, I'm slightly concerned about the first-round pick.

Metellus before Cine, Evans before Booth.

Our first two picks have been dinged up and missed some practice time. I hope thats all it is.

Same.
Post #: 563
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:31:03 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 20937
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

What a delight when a day after thread is dominated by Brad, Richard, and...JC? Lot's of repetition, and eventually someone needs to find a girlfriend, or is accused of being a child molester or a slave catcher...

At least Richard is a consistent presence. Why are the other two here?

Sorry man I'm just a bit weirded out with how we're so different from week 1 to week 2. Guess I got my hopes up too high. I'll try to refrain from beating a dead horse.
Post #: 564
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:35:42 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 20937
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline 		I guess my position would be this. I still have faith KOC will figure it out. Even if it takes longer than originally thought. I no longer have faith in Kirk really. Not much was really left to be honest. I think run D will be a problem all year. Let's see what kind of improvement can be made as the season progresses. The last crew left a mess to clean up no doubt.
Post #: 565
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:40:14 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 46451
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Metellus went in before Cine. For the first time, I'm slightly concerned about the first-round pick.

Metellus before Cine, Evans before Booth.

Our first two picks have been dinged up and missed some practice time. I hope thats all it is.

Same.

I thought Booth sat out the Eagles game due to injury.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 566
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 7:43:33 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 81046
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Metellus went in before Cine. For the first time, I'm slightly concerned about the first-round pick.

Metellus before Cine, Evans before Booth.

Our first two picks have been dinged up and missed some practice time. I hope thats all it is.

Same.

I thought Booth sat out the Eagles game due to injury.


He did.
Post #: 567
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2022 8:21:17 PM  1 votes
Daniel Lee Young

 

Posts: 16488
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

What a delight when a day after thread is dominated by Brad, Richard, and...JC? Lot's of repetition, and eventually someone needs to find a girlfriend, or is accused of being a child molester or a slave catcher...

At least Richard is a consistent presence. Why are the other two here?

Sorry man I'm just a bit weirded out with how we're so different from week 1 to week 2. Guess I got my hopes up too high. I'll try to refrain from beating a dead horse.

No..

We should have high expectations from an NFL starting QB making 2.3 MILLION dollars per game..

I’m sick of the Kirk Stans finding excuses for him.

A second year, 24 year old QB, from that passing QB powerhouse, OKLAHOMA, playing for a microscopic amount per game.. flat out out played the golden boy..

The Kirk Stans need to accept the fact that he SUCKS.

No ifs, and, or butts.

He is holding this team back and we will do nothing until he is gone..

Never accept mediocrity from your starting QB.

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 9/20/2022 8:24:18 PM >

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Post #: 568
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 1:37:06 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9898
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
we gave hurts wide-open passes...he'd run out, get a good look, and his receivers were just sitting in zone seams waiting for him to throw the ball...sure, there was that deep ball over the top, but for the most part, his players were stationary....

his targets averaged 4.2yards of separation...peterson was just standing there five yards off several times....

harrison smith on concussion protocol...they were just trying to give evans some playing time when they removed dantzler....

i say, get cine, booth, evans, and asamoah in the game now....

Probably not a bad idea to rotate PP, Booth, Evans and Dantzler. With Dantzler getting the most playing time.

Asamoah is a special teamer right now. Not even close to unseating Kendricks or Hicks.



we need their quickness - they're still comfortable on real grass...work them in - not all at the same time, but try to keep one on the field...our defense has no pop, we're reactionary and plodding....

danztler was the best db out there...peterson and harrison look much older on grass....








.

< Message edited by ratoppenheimer -- 9/21/2022 5:53:55 AM >

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 569
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 6:56:20 AM   
JC2022

 

Posts: 169
Joined: 9/20/2022
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

Hi Guys

Long time

I was at the game and Cousins was brutally bad. The Eagles are not a powerhouse by any stretch but the moment they put any pressure on Cousins he threw up some TERRIBLE balls.

He had 3 picks, should have had 6.

Hope everyone is well

JC

Good to hear from you.

Were there any conflicts on Vikings bench? Donatell and Cousins should have been getting an earful.


Thanks

No, didn't really see too many of the Vikings getting angry - after the blocked FG and the Hurts INT didn't produce points I saw resignation.

The biggest thing I noticed live was Cousins apparent lack of arm strength throwing the sideline out patterns. Eagles defenders were jumping almost every one.

For the life of me, don't know why they didn't fake that route and go deep
Post #: 570
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 6:58:55 AM   
JC2022

 

Posts: 169
Joined: 9/20/2022
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: JC2022

Hi Guys

Long time

I was at the game and Cousins was brutally bad. The Eagles are not a powerhouse by any stretch but the moment they put any pressure on Cousins he threw up some TERRIBLE balls.

He had 3 picks, should have had 6.

Hope everyone is well

JC

Agreed. It was amazing how many bad decisions he made. Twice the announcers blamed Irv Smith for not getting separation when Cousins threw it to him and he was covered like a book. On both plays the running back was wide open in the flat and could have run for 20-30 yards. They were just bad decisions and a quarterback not seeing the entire field.

I said it after last weeks game. The Vikings looked like a One Trick Pony in week one. It was Justin Jefferson or nothing. The coach wasn't getting anyone else involved.

It wasn't long ago that Dalvin Cook and Adam Thielen were considered by many to be elite players. Thielen didn't even get a pass thrown his way until late third/early fourth quarter. Dalvin Cook had six carries. We had a total of eight carries from our running backs. That is not a winning recipe.


Detroit ran all over the Eagles the week before yet the Vikes did not stick with the run

Thielen didn't seem to put in real work like he used to do. I didn't see the high motor guy

"They were just bad decisions and a quarterback not seeing the entire field."

It is all mental with Cousins. He can make the throws. But last night, his out patterns took FOREVER to get to the sidelines! I thought his arm was hurt because of the lack of steam on balls. Even slow Eagles DBs were almost able to jump those passes

If Cousins arm is not hurt, his mental block made his throws hesitant and weak

Welcome back JC

Cousins is who he always has been. A tin man that can't handle pressure.

Nobody can fix what is unfixable. At least all this MVP bs will stop.

I fell asleep at halftime which sounds like that was a real good thing.

Thanks

Can't argue with any of that.

I hate being stuck in QB purgatory - good enough to make management give him a big contract
Bad enough to never approach winning a SB
Post #: 571
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 7:01:30 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 20937
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline 		How were the route concepts JC? Were there a lot of open looks opposite Jefferson? Just curious what you saw live.
Post #: 572
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 7:11:05 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 20937
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline 		Jandro is unfortunately 100% correct. The unfixable issues with Kirk will prevent him from probably even seeing another playoff game let alone winning one. We all know it. I just don't understand why he's above being pulled ever! Keep him as the starter if you must. Everyone knows when the robot is short circuitung during the game. He shouldn't be above being pulled during the game. Everyone that's watched Kirk knew he was done pretty much from the jump.
Post #: 573
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 8:21:38 AM  1 votes
Pauldiercks1

 

Posts: 242
Joined: 2/1/2019
Status: offline 		I put this on the owners.
IMO it was definitely time to blow this team up and trade any high priced aging vert that we could. Finish the season with a win or two.
The Wilf's did not want to see or hear it. They insisted we could make a few minor changes and make a run. After last week I thought maybe I was wrong.
Now, I see that we are more likely around the 500 area. decent but not that good. The dreaded middle ground, only good for a young ascending team.
You can see the upcoming teams are always the ones that find that good young QB to build around.
Need that young QB that looks like he can take you to a championship or wins are pointless.
Post #: 574
RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/21/2022 8:22:35 AM   
ronhextall


Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Jimmy G. Wearing purple next season?

This constant extending of Cousins is maddening.
Post #: 575
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