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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 11:48:27 AM

Tom Sykes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Ok there are some but who did we have any shot at that is better than Kirk? I think we should have drafted Willis in the third this year. Many will break the bank shortly.

Hurts was drafted 53rd in 2020. We could have had him.

Lamar Jackson was drafted 32nd in 2018. We could have had him.

For starters.

If we had not extended Cousins to begin with, we would have had quite a few options along the way. Slam dunk improvements at the time? No. There would have been pain in transition ... you know Cousins will at least give you overall in-season production, nothing more and nothing less. (all QBs have games like this past Monday).

You never know, it may take two or three tries in the draft. Groundhogging it with KC this season and next is not the answer.

My bigger issue is, we don't even try to exhaust all our options ... when the only workable solution for success is a strong franchise QB who can rise to an occasion. That isn't just swept along with the current of the roster. We designate our starter and then mannion up. We should be drafting QBs every year until we find one worthy of developing; we should be signing backups to compete / push the starter ... not just for thigh massages.

We should have pulled Cousins in the second half of Monday's game and inserted a Foles or Daniel or Keenum or Henne or Teddy or Minshew or Heinicke, etc. None of those guys are long term answers, not even one season answers ... but at least they have shown the ability to rise to an occasion, occasionally. Having an ironclad overpaid starter with no spark or accountability has frozen our chances for competing with the big boys.

Post #: 626

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 11:49:16 AM

joejitsu

Posts: 15400
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

Yup. Dude is not an elite QB - and to compound that - he played a stinker on Monday. Not much to debate in either category.

And like I said, to win you need an elite QB in the modern NFL. Better get ready to pay massive money to sign one in FA or get one in the draft (the better option).

Until then, the odds say we will get what we have been getting for a long time around here. Makes it hard to get too high or too low. I have modest expectations for this team as far as winning a SB goes - and honestly, that's all that matters to me after watching for decades.

If the new brain trust thinks they see one in the upcoming draft I would have no complaints if they traded away a bunch of picks to climb up and get him. In this time period of the NFL the front office will be judged by the QB they acquire. Nobody is going to care if it takes 3 future #1's if you land the next Mahomes.

Nobody is going to care if you draft the next Ponder either. No matter how little capital it costs.

We have a couple of players who could be traded for picks that would help us get the draft capital and cash we would need for a big move. Once the ransom to Kirk is paid, we could look at free agent qb’s also.

Post #: 627

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 12:03:32 PM

marty

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e should have pulled Cousins in the second half of Monday's game and inserted a Foles or Daniel or Keenum or Henne or Teddy or Minshew or Heinicke, etc. None of those guys are long term answers, not even one season answers ... but at least they have shown the ability to rise to an occasion, occasionally. Having an ironclad overpaid starter with no spark or accountability has frozen our chances for competing with the big boys.

Why couldn't you put Mullens in that category ?

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Post #: 628

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 12:18:43 PM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

e should have pulled Cousins in the second half of Monday's game and inserted a Foles or Daniel or Keenum or Henne or Teddy or Minshew or Heinicke, etc. None of those guys are long term answers, not even one season answers ... but at least they have shown the ability to rise to an occasion, occasionally. Having an ironclad overpaid starter with no spark or accountability has frozen our chances for competing with the big boys.

Why couldn't you put Mullens in that category ?

Your bromance with Mullens notwithstanding, he is notches below a legitimate backup … which is either a veteran almost but not quite starter … or a young player who is pushing to be a starter.

Inserting him may have slaked your passion for moment … I am not sure he is anything but injury insurance, like maybe decapitation or something worse in Cousins’ case.

Mullens was a last gasp attempt to scramble out of the mannion mond void. Nothing more.

Post #: 629

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 1:03:22 PM

marty

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You don't think Mullens has ever risen to the occasion, as the others listed ?

What is this weird "mancrush" and "bromance" stuff all about ? I think it's a little weird, and may be a projection of some of your fantasies.

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Post #: 630

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 1:13:12 PM

David Levine

Posts: 77904
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

You don't think Mullens has ever risen to the occasion, as the others listed ?

No, I don't.

This is a perfect example of "the backup QB being the most popular player on the roster".

Post #: 631

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 1:16:46 PM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

You don't think Mullens has ever risen to the occasion, as the others listed ?

What is this weird "mancrush" and "bromance" stuff all about ? I think it's a little weird, and may be a projection of some of your fantasies.

We were all happy to get de-mannionized.

You have taken it to another level with Mullens.

Post #: 632

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 1:28:25 PM

marty

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Well then you would be wrong David. Mullens has won some big games like the others on the list, he just doesn't have a long track record.

I wonder if Mullens can be a gamer like Keenum, with this offense, but for now I am still excited to see what Kirk can do in it, and whether or not they can mask some of his weaknesses.

I would have drafted small hands Kenny Pickett in round one.

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Post #: 633

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 2:01:23 PM

Phil Riewer

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From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Ok there are some but who did we have any shot at that is better than Kirk? I think we should have drafted Willis in the third this year. Many will break the bank shortly.

Hurts was drafted 53rd in 2020. We could have had him.

Lamar Jackson was drafted 32nd in 2018. We could have had him.

For starters.

Back seat driving at its best...I loved a ton of players in 2020 and 2018. Spielman gone, Zimmer gone. Kwesi and KOC now and they got rid of Monds.

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Post #: 634

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 2:04:05 PM

Phil Riewer

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From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Well then you would be wrong David. Mullens has won some big games like the others on the list, he just doesn't have a long track record.

I wonder if Mullens can be a gamer like Keenum, with this offense, but for now I am still excited to see what Kirk can do in it, and whether or not they can mask some of his weaknesses.

I would have drafted small hands Kenny Pickett in round one.

Pickett currently on the bench. How are Fields (which Brad H conviently didn't mention who we actually were close to drafting), Lance, Mills, and Jones doing this year?

Could add Burrow into the mix; he has struggled after two games---should Cincy start Allen?

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 9/22/2022 2:09:10 PM >

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Post #: 635

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 2:07:58 PM

Phil Riewer

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Interesting after Week 1 Kirks QBR was #3....no Brad.
Week 2 Kirk played poorly in a game we were expected to lose; Brad everywhere.

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Post #: 636

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 3:59:33 PM

marty

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Pickett may not be on the bench long, I think he would have offered the Vikings a young QB with potential.

I was told this was not the draft to get a QB, that would be next year's draft. So are the same people that said that, in favor of the Vikes moving up in next year's draft to get a potential franchise QB ?

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Post #: 637

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 4:12:18 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19591
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Pickett may not be on the bench long, I think he would have offered the Vikings a young QB with potential.

I was told this was not the draft to get a QB, that would be next year's draft. So are the same people that said that, in favor of the Vikes moving up in next year's draft to get a potential franchise QB ?

I'm interested in doing whatever it takes, year after year, until we find a good young qb.

< Message edited by Richard Neussendorfer -- 9/22/2022 4:14:10 PM >

Post #: 638

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 4:12:42 PM

marty

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Phil, I think you missed what I said earlier:

Although I would have been tempted to insert Mullens in the 4th quarter, I am hopeful they can work around Kirk's weaknesses, like they attempt to work around the weakness at center.

I am excited and hopeful they work around Kirk's weaknesses. You could see a few things in the Vikings very last drive, having a place where Kirk could dump off short, have more screens ready (hopefully he goes to the right side, not someone that is well covered), and Kirk even ran on one play.

I think it's fine to keep going with Kirk, it helps in the evaluation to decide if they can work around his weaknesses, and use his strengths. Mullens starting would be better as a possible late season move, or a Kirk injury.

I admit to impulsively wanting to see Mullen's play against his former team in the 4th quarter, after seeing Kirk getting progressively bad. We have probably seen bad Kirk more than KOC has.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 639

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 4:25:40 PM

Brad H

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Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Ok there are some but who did we have any shot at that is better than Kirk? I think we should have drafted Willis in the third this year. Many will break the bank shortly.

Hurts was drafted 53rd in 2020. We could have had him.

Lamar Jackson was drafted 32nd in 2018. We could have had him.

For starters.

Back seat driving at its best...I loved a ton of players in 2020 and 2018. Spielman gone, Zimmer gone. Kwesi and KOC now and they got rid of Monds.

You asked the question. I answered it.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 4:39:23 PM

Phil Riewer

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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Ok there are some but who did we have any shot at that is better than Kirk? I think we should have drafted Willis in the third this year. Many will break the bank shortly.

Hurts was drafted 53rd in 2020. We could have had him.

Lamar Jackson was drafted 32nd in 2018. We could have had him.

For starters.

Back seat driving at its best...I loved a ton of players in 2020 and 2018. Spielman gone, Zimmer gone. Kwesi and KOC now and they got rid of Monds.

You asked the question. I answered it.

Drafting Jackson in the 1st round after signing Kirk in 2018? With Case, Teddy, and Bradford scenarios also....

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Post #: 641

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 4:49:09 PM

Brad H

Posts: 22986
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Ok there are some but who did we have any shot at that is better than Kirk? I think we should have drafted Willis in the third this year. Many will break the bank shortly.

Hurts was drafted 53rd in 2020. We could have had him.

Lamar Jackson was drafted 32nd in 2018. We could have had him.

For starters.

Back seat driving at its best...I loved a ton of players in 2020 and 2018. Spielman gone, Zimmer gone. Kwesi and KOC now and they got rid of Monds.

You asked the question. I answered it.

Drafting Jackson in the 1st round after signing Kirk in 2018? With Case, Teddy, and Bradford scenarios also....

It was almost as silly as the question itself.

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Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 642

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 5:25:57 PM

Todd M

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Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

I'm just a casual fan now. They can win me back with a run but I don't expect it. Ever.

It's been 5 decades...who's to say it won't be 6 or 7?

I hate that I've been such a sucker.

Post #: 643

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 5:27:52 PM

Murph

Posts: 2027
Joined: 4/20/2008
From: PNW
Status: online

SF gave up 3 #1's to move up for Lance with Garoppolo on the team because their QB was good but not elite; I was/am jealous even if Lance is a bust.

I wish our franchise would repeatedly do what ever it takes to find that young elite QB. Even if they swing and miss I'll be happier than if we just stand pat with good overpaid QB and never win a Super Bowl.

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Post #: 644

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 5:36:19 PM

Todd M

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Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

Kwesi will be chomping at the bit to make that kind of move next year I bet.

Post #: 645

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 8:08:11 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19591
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From: Alamogordo, NM
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I'm just a casual fan now. They can win me back with a run but I don't expect it. Ever.

It's been 5 decades...who's to say it won't be 6 or 7?

I hate that I've been such a sucker.

It seems this team as currently compromised is fine with losing. KOC has much work to do.

Post #: 646

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 8:53:29 PM

joejitsu

Posts: 15400
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: online

If we cut Cousins and sign Jimmy G in the off season, and find a way to draft Will Levis, I’d be very happy. But, that’s just a pipe dream for me.

Post #: 647

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 9:20:40 PM

bohumm

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Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
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The problem is the Wilfs and their mandate to compete for the playoffs every year. Selling out for a rookie QB isn't necessarily compatible with that leaning.

Post #: 648

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/22/2022 10:08:26 PM

hagar

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Joined: 3/3/2014
From: fresburg, ca
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I was happy at the beginning of the game to see that kirk was allowed to audible at the line which seemed to never be allowed
under zimmer. Sadly I watched him several times miss that he had wide open receivers/running backs as he threw into a
clusterfuck of defenders. If that's the best he can do then might as well run the ball into the Oline's butts. At least that won't
get picked. Hope next week is better

Post #: 649

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/23/2022 12:26:50 AM

Bill Johanesen

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Status: offline

Speaking of pre-snap, what's the thing with Cleveland getting out of his stance, turning his head, and doing double and triple takes? A personal issue or part of the scheme? Were we too crisp in week 1 and now inserted a way to eat up time? Get in your damn stance and stay there.

Post #: 650