quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Will Ragatz
@WillRagatz
·
1h
#Vikings top PFF grades vs. Lions, offensive players (min. 10 snaps)

Ben Ellefson: 93.1
Christian Darrisaw: 89.4
Johnny Mundt: 81.4
K.J. Osborn: 78.3
Garrett Bradbury: 77.8
Adam Thielen: 77.0
Kirk Cousins: 76.6
Will Ragatz
@WillRagatz
·
1h
#Vikings top PFF grades vs. Lions, defensive players (min. 10 snaps)

Danielle Hunter: 83.9
Josh Metellus: 82.7
Za'Darius Smith: 82.7
Dalvin Tomlinson: 76.7
Jordan Hicks: 74.3

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

Vikings look smallish (Hunter listed at just 240?) so they get gouged in the run AND they are not close to receivers so they are not using their presumed speed either.

I hope they figure it out...maybe we will see more of Cine, Booth, and Asamoah going forward.

Early defensive stats:

Allowing 138 ypg rushing (25th) at 4.8 ypc (22nd). 5 TDs (31st).

Passing wise, allowing 7.4 ypa (29th). 69.4 completion percentage (28th). 2 pass TDs (tied for 1st with several teams).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

Vikings look smallish (Hunter listed at just 240?) so they get gouged in the run AND they are not close to receivers so they are not using their presumed speed either.

I hope they figure it out...maybe we will see more of Cine, Booth, and Asamoah going forward.

Early defensive stats:

Allowing 138 ypg rushing (25th) at 4.8 ypc (22nd). 5 TDs (31st).

Passing wise, allowing 7.4 ypa (29th). 69.4 completion percentage (28th). 2 pass TDs (tied for 1st with several teams).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Eddie sucks!! Why is this fool our DC. We can't stop the run because our safeties our 42 yards off the ball. Thank god, people are not getting behind them..

Cine doesn't see the field? oh yeah, he likes to play up and hit someone before they consume 15 yards.

What happened to JJ running free? Cupp?

Second half, them seemed to play coverage tighter, but this scheme is really, really bad. Gramps has to go!!!

Between Smith and Hunter I was expecting to see far more pressure. Smith seems more effective coming from the inside. Hunter has been MIA

They're dropping Hunter into pass protection at times, which I hate. Passing situations, I want Hunter rushing the passer.

.
Only linebackers that can edge Rush can play in a 3-4 defense, It doesn’t work for DE’s.

Seems both Smith and Hunter do better rushing the passer with their hand in the dirt.

I agree with Hunter; not Smith. He should be the rover; not a hand in the dirt. Did you watch the last play when Smith came up the A gap? That is where he succeeds. ZED actually can cover if needed also.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

Vikings look smallish (Hunter listed at just 240?) so they get gouged in the run AND they are not close to receivers so they are not using their presumed speed either.

I hope they figure it out...maybe we will see more of Cine, Booth, and Asamoah going forward.

Early defensive stats:

Allowing 138 ypg rushing (25th) at 4.8 ypc (22nd). 5 TDs (31st).

Passing wise, allowing 7.4 ypa (29th). 69.4 completion percentage (28th). 2 pass TDs (tied for 1st with several teams).

Tied for 10th in the league in scoring defense despite playing the 3rd, 5th and 27th highest scoring teams. Said teams have cumulatively scored 29.5 ppg vs the rest of the league, 18.3 ppg vs. Vikings.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

IF you hired a poor DC, how long do you give him before firing him ?

Kicking 56 yard FG when you have a good punter. Short field made two of Detroit TDS.

Defense will be a work in progress but our best safety and cb were both out.

I don’t remember how many games it has been since we pulled out a game we shouldn’t have won. It has been the other way with Zimmer.

Just who the hell is our best CB !!!

Short field made their TDs!!!

And finally, Detroit lat last year was the last time … !!!

oh never mind.

ridiculous.

Any game observations?

Eff you, I responded to a post. burble your own meaningless observations if you want something that appeals to you.

I'll take that as a NO.

You'd have to read between the lines to get my meaning.

I'm not going to spell it out for you.

How 'bout me? Can you spell it out for me?

IMO we have no idea how good or bad Booth is since he has not played. Its asinine to use it as an excuse for our defense.

IMO starting from their 25 or 35 or 45 is not the reason for DET scoring. Its having a mediocre defense at best. Also IMO a short field would mean less than 50 yards. At the very least, not punting / missing FGs is a different argument … regardless, it made it easier - it does not equate to the other team scoring. Unless your defense is really bad.

IMO beating DET last year as time expired (after DET scored with 37 sec) is exactly when that happened under Zimmer. Last year!

If a punter pins them inside their 10 or even 20. Their odds of scoring are the same as starting from their 46?

Did I say or suggest that? No.

Kicking it, going for it or punting it all have their arguments in long field goal situations. Going for three or possibly giving them better field position is only one consideration.

Choosing to kick the field goal, missing it and giving the ball to DET on our side of the field does not 'make' (your word) or generate or produce or spawn TDs for the other team. It makes it easier for them, yes.

So Exclamations mean?

Starting from own 45 improves it one series of downs so it went from around 35.7% chance of scoring a TD instead of 25% at the 28 or 18% at the 11 yard line.

Detroit only scored 3 TDs; two of them were on shorter fields.

FYI

if you are arguing that improving the other team's chances of scoring from 18 or whatever % to 35.7% (wholly ridiculous numbers to begin with) is the same thing as making or giving them TDs ... you'd be wrong but you'd get little bronze stars for stubbornness against all odds ...

if you don't think 35.7% is the same thing as a guarantee of scoring TDs ...

you would be arguing my point for me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

So we double their chance of scoring a TD and it is arguing your point for you....gotcha.

I know Zimmer is gone but Field position is important.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

So we double their chance of scoring a TD and it is arguing your point for you....gotcha.

I know Zimmer is gone but Field position is important.

You'd have to understand my point to really see the humor.

Onward.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

Vikings look smallish (Hunter listed at just 240?) so they get gouged in the run AND they are not close to receivers so they are not using their presumed speed either.

I hope they figure it out...maybe we will see more of Cine, Booth, and Asamoah going forward.

Early defensive stats:

Allowing 138 ypg rushing (25th) at 4.8 ypc (22nd). 5 TDs (31st).

Passing wise, allowing 7.4 ypa (29th). 69.4 completion percentage (28th). 2 pass TDs (tied for 1st with several teams).

Tied for 10th in the league in scoring defense despite playing the 3rd, 5th and 27th highest scoring teams. Said teams have cumulatively scored 29.5 ppg vs the rest of the league, 18.3 ppg vs. Vikings.

10th is no grand achievement cause that pesky 27th "highest scoring" team gets in the way.

Like I said, early returns.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

Vikings look smallish (Hunter listed at just 240?) so they get gouged in the run AND they are not close to receivers so they are not using their presumed speed either.

I hope they figure it out...maybe we will see more of Cine, Booth, and Asamoah going forward.

Early defensive stats:

Allowing 138 ypg rushing (25th) at 4.8 ypc (22nd). 5 TDs (31st).

Passing wise, allowing 7.4 ypa (29th). 69.4 completion percentage (28th). 2 pass TDs (tied for 1st with several teams).

Tied for 10th in the league in scoring defense despite playing the 3rd, 5th and 27th highest scoring teams. Said teams have cumulatively scored 29.5 ppg vs the rest of the league, 18.3 ppg vs. Vikings.

10th is no grand achievement cause that pesky 27th "highest scoring" team gets in the way.

Like I said, early returns.

quote:

Said teams have cumulatively scored 29.5 ppg vs the rest of the league, 18.3 ppg vs. Vikings.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Will Ragatz
@WillRagatz
·
1h
#Vikings top PFF grades vs. Lions, offensive players (min. 10 snaps)

Ben Ellefson: 93.1
Christian Darrisaw: 89.4
Johnny Mundt: 81.4
K.J. Osborn: 78.3
Garrett Bradbury: 77.8
Adam Thielen: 77.0
Kirk Cousins: 76.6
Will Ragatz
@WillRagatz
·
1h
#Vikings top PFF grades vs. Lions, defensive players (min. 10 snaps)

Danielle Hunter: 83.9
Josh Metellus: 82.7
Za'Darius Smith: 82.7
Dalvin Tomlinson: 76.7
Jordan Hicks: 74.3

Ellefson's agent should be on the phone with Queasy

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Eddie sucks!! Why is this fool our DC. We can't stop the run because our safeties our 42 yards off the ball. Thank god, people are not getting behind them..

Cine doesn't see the field? oh yeah, he likes to play up and hit someone before they consume 15 yards.

What happened to JJ running free? Cupp?

Second half, them seemed to play coverage tighter, but this scheme is really, really bad. Gramps has to go!!!

Between Smith and Hunter I was expecting to see far more pressure. Smith seems more effective coming from the inside. Hunter has been MIA

They're dropping Hunter into pass protection at times, which I hate. Passing situations, I want Hunter rushing the passer.

.
Only linebackers that can edge Rush can play in a 3-4 defense, It doesn’t work for DE’s.

Seems both Smith and Hunter do better rushing the passer with their hand in the dirt.

I agree with Hunter; not Smith. He should be the rover; not a hand in the dirt. Did you watch the last play when Smith came up the A gap? That is where he succeeds. ZED actually can cover if needed also.

Completely agree about Z Smith being a rover... he has been the most consistent pressure and does better when picking his spot to rush from (from my eye test)...

Don't know about how good he is in coverage... can't say I've seen him break up anything yet.

Don't know what to do with Hunter either... seemed like he was a lot more effective rushing from this end spot.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Will Ragatz
@WillRagatz
·
1h
#Vikings top PFF grades vs. Lions, offensive players (min. 10 snaps)

Ben Ellefson: 93.1
Christian Darrisaw: 89.4
Johnny Mundt: 81.4
K.J. Osborn: 78.3
Garrett Bradbury: 77.8
Adam Thielen: 77.0
Kirk Cousins: 76.6
Will Ragatz
@WillRagatz
·
1h
#Vikings top PFF grades vs. Lions, defensive players (min. 10 snaps)

Danielle Hunter: 83.9
Josh Metellus: 82.7
Za'Darius Smith: 82.7
Dalvin Tomlinson: 76.7
Jordan Hicks: 74.3

Ellefson's agent should be on the phone with Queasy

i wonder what metellus's score would be without the end of game interception...i think he's developed into a solid player, and next year could contend for a starting position....

safety could be our deepest position on defense....

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Will Ragatz
@WillRagatz
·
1h
#Vikings top PFF grades vs. Lions, offensive players (min. 10 snaps)

Ben Ellefson: 93.1
Christian Darrisaw: 89.4
Johnny Mundt: 81.4
K.J. Osborn: 78.3
Garrett Bradbury: 77.8
Adam Thielen: 77.0
Kirk Cousins: 76.6
Will Ragatz
@WillRagatz
·
1h
#Vikings top PFF grades vs. Lions, defensive players (min. 10 snaps)

Danielle Hunter: 83.9
Josh Metellus: 82.7
Za'Darius Smith: 82.7
Dalvin Tomlinson: 76.7
Jordan Hicks: 74.3

Ellefson's agent should be on the phone with Queasy

i wonder what metellus's score would be without the end of game interception...i think he's developed into a solid player, and next year could contend for a starting position....

safety could be our deepest position on defense....

It probably was NOT helped by him dropping the potential end of game interception on the previous play...

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Eddie sucks!! Why is this fool our DC. We can't stop the run because our safeties our 42 yards off the ball. Thank god, people are not getting behind them..

Cine doesn't see the field? oh yeah, he likes to play up and hit someone before they consume 15 yards.

What happened to JJ running free? Cupp?

Second half, them seemed to play coverage tighter, but this scheme is really, really bad. Gramps has to go!!!

Between Smith and Hunter I was expecting to see far more pressure. Smith seems more effective coming from the inside. Hunter has been MIA

They're dropping Hunter into pass protection at times, which I hate. Passing situations, I want Hunter rushing the passer.

.
Only linebackers that can edge Rush can play in a 3-4 defense, It doesn’t work for DE’s.

Seems both Smith and Hunter do better rushing the passer with their hand in the dirt.

I agree with Hunter; not Smith. He should be the rover; not a hand in the dirt. Did you watch the last play when Smith came up the A gap? That is where he succeeds. ZED actually can cover if needed also.

Completely agree about Z Smith being a rover... he has been the most consistent pressure and does better when picking his spot to rush from (from my eye test)...

Don't know about how good he is in coverage... can't say I've seen him break up anything yet.

Don't know what to do with Hunter either... seemed like he was a lot more effective rushing from this end spot.

I'd almost like to see them go back to the 4-3, with Hunter as full time DE, and ZED in more of a Lance Johnstone type role, situational pass rush rotational guy, a guy who can put up double digit sacks, and also play the run IF you keep him fresh. I don't like either of those guys in pass coverage, except for the occasional tricky drop back to cover for blitzers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Allen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffrey greitzer

Eddie sucks!! Why is this fool our DC. We can't stop the run because our safeties our 42 yards off the ball. Thank god, people are not getting behind them..

Cine doesn't see the field? oh yeah, he likes to play up and hit someone before they consume 15 yards.

What happened to JJ running free? Cupp?

Second half, them seemed to play coverage tighter, but this scheme is really, really bad. Gramps has to go!!!

Between Smith and Hunter I was expecting to see far more pressure. Smith seems more effective coming from the inside. Hunter has been MIA

They're dropping Hunter into pass protection at times, which I hate. Passing situations, I want Hunter rushing the passer.

.
Only linebackers that can edge Rush can play in a 3-4 defense, It doesn’t work for DE’s.

Seems both Smith and Hunter do better rushing the passer with their hand in the dirt.

I agree with Hunter; not Smith. He should be the rover; not a hand in the dirt. Did you watch the last play when Smith came up the A gap? That is where he succeeds. ZED actually can cover if needed also.

Completely agree about Z Smith being a rover... he has been the most consistent pressure and does better when picking his spot to rush from (from my eye test)...

Don't know about how good he is in coverage... can't say I've seen him break up anything yet.

Don't know what to do with Hunter either... seemed like he was a lot more effective rushing from this end spot.

I'd almost like to see them go back to the 4-3, with Hunter as full time DE, and ZED in more of a Lance Johnstone type role, situational pass rush rotational guy, a guy who can put up double digit sacks, and also play the run IF you keep him fresh. I don't like either of those guys in pass coverage, except for the occasional tricky drop back to cover for blitzers.

I like the 3-4 scheme...but you need the right players to play it. Seems like Pittsburgh was always able to find two good run stuffing DE's to go with a fat guy in the middle. Then they find all these tweeners to run at OLB. I am not sure Hunter and Zadarius have the skills to play that OLB position in the 3-4. Maybe Osamoah could do it? Barr in his prime would have been good. Don't these OLB's have to be able to cover? The middle is open because those OLB have trouble in coverage AND the safeties are just too far back. Hopefully the pass rush improves which might help guys in coverage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

My 2 cents

An Ugly win is a win.

We only led the game for 45 seconds of game time all day. but it was the most important 45 seconds.

Campbell even thinks he made a mistake going for the FG. I don't. Even though we got the TD we didn't NEED it. We were more relaxed with less pressure as we were well withing FG range to tie. If they Lions make that FG they then kick off,

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

My 2 cents

An Ugly win is a win.

We only led the game for 45 seconds of game time all day. but it was the most important 45 seconds.

Campbell even thinks he made a mistake going for the FG. I don't. Even though we got the TD we didn't NEED it. We were more relaxed with less pressure as we were well withing FG range to tie. If they Lions make that FG they then kick off,

Apparently the Lions PK only makes about 50% of FGs 40+ yards, so a 54 yarder would seem problematic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Move the **** on from Barr.

He is done.

We are gonna need more, better players to fit a long term commitment to a 3-4.

We are still getting gashed at 4.7 YPA, in run defense.

We are giving up 7.4 YPA, in pass defense, allowing 69.4% completion percentage.

That sucks.. therefor, the defense, sucks.

Our outside DT are not a good fit.

Our linebackers are not the best fit.

It’s a work in progress, it needs to improve and that’s on Donatello, his scheme, his failure.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

My 2 cents

An Ugly win is a win.

We only led the game for 45 seconds of game time all day. but it was the most important 45 seconds.

Campbell even thinks he made a mistake going for the FG. I don't. Even though we got the TD we didn't NEED it. We were more relaxed with less pressure as we were well withing FG range to tie. If they Lions make that FG they then kick off,

Apparently the Lions PK only makes about 50% of FGs 40+ yards, so a 54 yarder would seem problematic.

... early returns of course. ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

My 2 cents

An Ugly win is a win.

We only led the game for 45 seconds of game time all day. but it was the most important 45 seconds.

Campbell even thinks he made a mistake going for the FG. I don't. Even though we got the TD we didn't NEED it. We were more relaxed with less pressure as we were well withing FG range to tie. If they Lions make that FG they then kick off,

Apparently the Lions PK only makes about 50% of FGs 40+ yards, so a 54 yarder would seem problematic.

... early returns of course. ;)

Just couldn't wait to get a barb in... even if it was a weak ass one.