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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 10:44:28 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Moving on to the Vikings, "Since I got hurt the new goal is 1,000 yards,” Jefferson said, via Kevin Seifert of ESPN.com. “I want to end every single year over 1,000 yards. . . . It's been hard to adjust those goals honestly."

I'm glad his goal is yards and not touchdowns.



Get the yards, the Touchdowns will come


With Jefferson, that’s been surprisingly not true.

Yup
Post #: 5726
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 11:01:28 AM   
marty


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I was glad to see Dobbs getting the start

I was disappointed to see, as I just checked, Mullens listed as #2, Hall at #3


There must have been a reason KOC demoted Hall to #3.

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Post #: 5727
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 11:02:40 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Moving on to the Vikings, "Since I got hurt the new goal is 1,000 yards,” Jefferson said, via Kevin Seifert of ESPN.com. “I want to end every single year over 1,000 yards. . . . It's been hard to adjust those goals honestly."

I'm glad his goal is yards and not touchdowns.



Get the yards, the Touchdowns will come


With Jefferson, that’s been surprisingly not true.

Yup


Yup +1.
Post #: 5728
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 11:21:30 AM   
Daniel Lee Young


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Moving on to the Vikings, "Since I got hurt the new goal is 1,000 yards,” Jefferson said, via Kevin Seifert of ESPN.com. “I want to end every single year over 1,000 yards. . . . It's been hard to adjust those goals honestly."

I'm glad his goal is yards and not touchdowns.



Get the yards, the Touchdowns will come


With Jefferson, that’s been surprisingly not true.

Yup


Yup +1.


It’s gotta be frustrating for him.. but it’s on him to be creative and defeat the opposition clamping him down in the red zone.
Also his being double teamed in the red zone, opens up other, unfortunately, butter fingered receivers…

Indecision on making a throw doesn’t help either..

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Post #: 5729
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 11:33:57 AM   
David F.


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I looked up Jefferson’s stats and he gets just under 193 yards for every TD. I looked at a few other top wrs and the 193 appears very high to say the least.

At a glance, Julio jones appears to be the only Notable wr that takes even more yards to get a TD than Jefferson. Outliers in the other direction are Adam theorem and Devonte Adams, who are closer to 110 yards per TD

< Message edited by David F. -- 12/8/2023 11:38:59 AM >


_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5730
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 11:45:29 AM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I looked up Jefferson’s stats and he gets just under 193 yards for every TD. I looked at a few other top wrs and the 193 appears very high to say the least.

At a glance, Julio jones appears to be the only Notable wr that takes even more yards to get a TD than Jefferson. Outliers in the other direction are Adam theorem and Devonte Adams, who are closer to 110 yards per TD

He's just not a td scorer. I'm not breaking the bank for that personally but I'm sure the Vikings will. His goals are yardage it seems and he does really well in that department.
Post #: 5731
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 12:13:18 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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He doesn't do well in yardage in the playoffs. A goal of 50 yards and 7 ypr would be an improvement.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 12/8/2023 12:43:28 PM >
Post #: 5732
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 12:20:52 PM   
Ricky J


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Has he had several catches of notably length that went out of bounds inside say the 10 or 5 yard line? Is that a look upable stat? Are we talking about an anomaly here? Is this a thing that one could say with accuracy, "He's just not as good as they say 'cause look at his lack of TDs compared to yards.?"

Intersting subject
Post #: 5733
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 12:23:22 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Has he had several catches of notably length that went out of bounds inside say the 10 or 5 yard line? Is that a look upable stat? Are we talking about an anomaly here? Is this a thing that one could say with accuracy, "He's just not as good as they say 'cause look at his lack of TDs compared to yards.?"

Intersting subject

All good questions. I'd say he just doesn't have that nose for the endzone like some do. He could probably be used in the red zone more effectively too though.
Post #: 5734
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 12:25:38 PM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I looked up Jefferson’s stats and he gets just under 193 yards for every TD. I looked at a few other top wrs and the 193 appears very high to say the least.

At a glance, Julio jones appears to be the only Notable wr that takes even more yards to get a TD than Jefferson. Outliers in the other direction are Adam theorem and Devonte Adams, who are closer to 110 yards per TD

He's just not a td scorer. I'm not breaking the bank for that personally but I'm sure the Vikings will. His goals are yardage it seems and he does really well in that department.


You darn right they’ll sign him based on yardage stats. They watched us all jizz our collective pants over a running back that put up yardage stats and disappeared in the playoffs. We sure love our stats!!

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5735
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 12:26:14 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

I looked up Jefferson’s stats and he gets just under 193 yards for every TD. I looked at a few other top wrs and the 193 appears very high to say the least.

At a glance, Julio jones appears to be the only Notable wr that takes even more yards to get a TD than Jefferson. Outliers in the other direction are Adam theorem and Devonte Adams, who are closer to 110 yards per TD


Interesting Julio Jones stats.

And in his peak yardage year he had 1871 yards and 8 TDs. Jefferson's peak yardage was last year with 1809 yards and 8 TDs.
Post #: 5736
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 12:32:10 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I was glad to see Dobbs getting the start

I was disappointed to see, as I just checked, Mullens listed as #2, Hall at #3


There must have been a reason KOC demoted Hall to #3.


I don't think he was demoted.

Mullens, when healthy, has always been the #2. He just got his spot back.

Hall is a project. A 5th round pick that was not anywhere near NFL ready.
Post #: 5737
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 12:34:08 PM   
David F.


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I’m paraphrasing thom skee here - TDs > yards, points > stats, stats do not = wins.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5738
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 12:38:50 PM   
David F.


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Even with the 10 point clunker vs the bears the Vikings scored more points per game during the most recent 4 game stretch without Jefferson and a barely-starter quality qb. And they won the same amount of games. Tell me again why we need cousins and/or Jefferson? In Jefferson’s case I mean once he’s off his rookie contract. I’ll happily play a talented wr in his rookie deal.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5739
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 12:40:54 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

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From: Alamogordo, NM
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Even with the 10 point clunker vs the bears the Vikings scored more points per game during the most recent 4 game stretch without Jefferson and a barely-starter quality qb. And they won the same amount of games. Tell me again why we need cousins and/or Jefferson? In Jefferson’s case I mean once he’s off his rookie contract. I’ll happily play a talented wr in his rookie deal.

Thats the point I've tried to make for a while now.
Post #: 5740
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 12:45:59 PM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Even with the 10 point clunker vs the bears the Vikings scored more points per game during the most recent 4 game stretch without Jefferson and a barely-starter quality qb. And they won the same amount of games. Tell me again why we need cousins and/or Jefferson? In Jefferson’s case I mean once he’s off his rookie contract. I’ll happily play a talented wr in his rookie deal.

Thats the point I've tried to make for a while now.


Yes you have. I’ve been hesitant to jump on board because I’m also guilty of getting tittelated by huge stat lines too.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5741
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 2:22:34 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

If Cousins wants to win a SB his best chance has to be here in MN.

How bad does he want win one?

If I had more money than God I'd take a heck of a cut to stay put - which is easy to say sitting at home in my easy chair.

I'm as interested as anyone what he'll have to have to sign in MN


Yup. Its easy for us to say we'd take less because none of us have ever had the kind of money he does.

But the thing I've found dealing with really wealthy people is most of them are super driven (obsessed even) to keep making more and more. There is no such thing as enough.

Cousins seems as "normal" as possible for a QB based on the Netflix show. He doesn't have a particularly fancy house. They don't drive really expensive cars or dress fancy. But he's been as mercenary as anyone ever in the NFL when it comes to his contracts.


I admire your ability to say it nicely. I'm not at all being sarcastic. There is a money problem in this country. Some people don't have any. Rich people never have enough. It's a sickness.

Cousins and his agent (McCartney?) have indeed gotten the best of NFL GM's for his entire career. I'd like the Vikings to move on, but I'm not shedding tears for any NFL owner or GM getting fleeced by a player. I just wish it wasn't the Vikings that he's doing it to.

How much did we pay Favre for his second year? Bradford? We have a history of this type of shit. We just don't seem to be able to draft or evaluate QB talent. I have always questioned our ability to coach up a QB, regardless of who is in charge.

Seems like we are just bad at QB's. That sucks.

Don't get me wrong, we are still suffering from the mistakes of Spielman....using a 2nd and 3rd on back up, mediocre at best, RB's and TE's. Irv Smith is probably the fourth best TE on his team right now. Sure, Mattison runs hard, so does Najee Harris. The bar should be higher.

I hope we have a plan for the future that doesn't consist of Cousins, Dobbs or Mullens.

Cousins will be 36 next season, and coming off an Achilles. It's a young man's game. Short of a significant pay cut, let him find his way in the world with the nearly $142-million he has made as a quarterback. With the money the Vikings have paid him, we could feed the homeless in this country for a couple of years.

You could feed a homeless person for a couple years off 250 bucks?

You get the point. No need to trivialize the number.

I honestly don't know what it costs to feed a homeless person per year. I was going to be quite impressed that it was that low.

Seems like a good time to do some homework and get involved. It's the holidays. Spread the wealth and help the needy.

Actually, Cousins has made over $230-million playing quarterback in the NFL.

Just going off the internet but it says Cousins net worth is $70M. And the guy is notoriously frugal on what he spends for himself.

Take $115M off to give to the government and he still clears $115M.

JMO but I think the guy helps the needy and is a stand up guy.

And I still want a 1st round QB.
Post #: 5742
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 2:34:27 PM   
David F.


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If we’re going by opinions then JMO he tortures and kills puppies and stands in line one hour early when boarding a flight.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5743
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 2:37:13 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

If we’re going by opinions then JMO he tortures and kills puppies and stands in line one hour early when boarding a flight.



Come on, man. You're in Vegas.

And you're worried that someone said something positive about Cousins.

< Message edited by Mark Anderson -- 12/8/2023 2:42:28 PM >
Post #: 5744
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 2:41:36 PM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

If we’re going by opinions then JMO he tortures and kills puppies and stands in line one hour early when boarding a flight.

Okay then.


Chews with his mouth open too.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5745
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 3:06:25 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

If we’re going by opinions then JMO he tortures and kills puppies and stands in line one hour early when boarding a flight.


Standing in line for an hour gives him time to plan out his life in 15 minute intervals.

That alone should have been a huge indicator that this guy doesn't go off script. Game manager.
Post #: 5746
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 3:31:59 PM   
beo

 

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I'm in the keep JJ camp.

If you aren't paying huge money to a QB... I don't have a problem paying an extremely young, extremely talented player at a position where you can play out a long contract and reasonably expect to keep level of play or even improve.

I think this team is going to need some superstars for a chance to win it all.
I think our biggest problem of that fun 2017 team was we didn't have any superstars.
The team was absolutely solid across the board.
But no one really dominated or put the team on their back in the playoffs.

The idea that you are going to turn JJ into a draft haul and then turn that into star players is a huge gamble.
I know it's not apples to apples... but Moss netted Napoleon Harris and Troy Williamson... that is absolutely a possibility.

JJ is a known.

ymmv

Have we won games without him... yes.

But I think the last couple games you are seeing what this offense is going to be now that teams know how to neutralize Addison.
Not much fun to watch.
Post #: 5747
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 3:46:00 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

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Historically we've had trouble winning games with him as well. Yes last year we won 13 games but being 11-0 in one score games seems unlikely to happen ever again. It's a decision I'm sure I'd wrestle with as the gm but I don't know. Seems silly to pay a wr that kind of money if they're not a moss type. Great post btw and totally respect your opinion.
Post #: 5748
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 4:05:22 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

I'm in the keep JJ camp.

If you aren't paying huge money to a QB... I don't have a problem paying an extremely young, extremely talented player at a position where you can play out a long contract and reasonably expect to keep level of play or even improve.

I think this team is going to need some superstars for a chance to win it all.
I think our biggest problem of that fun 2017 team was we didn't have any superstars.
The team was absolutely solid across the board.
But no one really dominated or put the team on their back in the playoffs.

The idea that you are going to turn JJ into a draft haul and then turn that into star players is a huge gamble.
I know it's not apples to apples... but Moss netted Napoleon Harris and Troy Williamson... that is absolutely a possibility.

JJ is a known.

ymmv

Have we won games without him... yes.

But I think the last couple games you are seeing what this offense is going to be now that teams know how to neutralize Addison.
Not much fun to watch.

Sign him. Have minimal cap hits for 1st two years(8-15M) for a '30M+ per' contract.

If it isn't working after 2 years, trade him. He will still be in prime and could fetch a nice haul.

< Message edited by Mark Anderson -- 12/8/2023 4:09:57 PM >
Post #: 5749
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/8/2023 10:27:28 PM   
Ricky J


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.

< Message edited by Ricky J -- 12/8/2023 11:52:26 PM >
Post #: 5750
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