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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2023 7:50:43 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22667
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

I'm in the keep JJ camp.

If you aren't paying huge money to a QB... I don't have a problem paying an extremely young, extremely talented player at a position where you can play out a long contract and reasonably expect to keep level of play or even improve.

I think this team is going to need some superstars for a chance to win it all.
I think our biggest problem of that fun 2017 team was we didn't have any superstars.
The team was absolutely solid across the board.
But no one really dominated or put the team on their back in the playoffs.

The idea that you are going to turn JJ into a draft haul and then turn that into star players is a huge gamble.
I know it's not apples to apples... but Moss netted Napoleon Harris and Troy Williamson... that is absolutely a possibility.

JJ is a known.

ymmv

Have we won games without him... yes.

But I think the last couple games you are seeing what this offense is going to be now that teams know how to neutralize Addison.
Not much fun to watch.

My biggest issue with JJ is that he is coming off a hammy injury. Once the soft tissue injuries start coming, they never seem to stop. I hope I'm wrong.

The guy missed seven games with a hammy injury. That's a lot. I would have some reservations about a massive, long-term contract. I'd like to know when he was really ready to play, or if they held him out because they thought the loss of Cousins meant they had no real chance of making the playoffs. Four weeks later, they are still in the hunt.

Either way, seven games lost to a hammy is a long time. It must have been a bad one.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 12/9/2023 7:55:05 AM >


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Post #: 5751
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2023 9:10:11 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27604
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

I'm in the keep JJ camp.

If you aren't paying huge money to a QB... I don't have a problem paying an extremely young, extremely talented player at a position where you can play out a long contract and reasonably expect to keep level of play or even improve.

I think this team is going to need some superstars for a chance to win it all.
I think our biggest problem of that fun 2017 team was we didn't have any superstars.
The team was absolutely solid across the board.
But no one really dominated or put the team on their back in the playoffs.

The idea that you are going to turn JJ into a draft haul and then turn that into star players is a huge gamble.
I know it's not apples to apples... but Moss netted Napoleon Harris and Troy Williamson... that is absolutely a possibility.

JJ is a known.

ymmv

Have we won games without him... yes.

But I think the last couple games you are seeing what this offense is going to be now that teams know how to neutralize Addison.
Not much fun to watch.


Good post, although I'm in the opposite camp (not totally). Wanted to mention yes draft picks are a gamble, and that's why a proven player or players should be part of any deal.

Also, if someone offers the value of the Moss trade you hang up. It's about equal value, but admittedly/again I don't know what that value is.

Anyway, the extension talks are likely to heat up in the offseason and he'll be a Viking. Now that Cousins is out of the way, they can afford JJ (I don't believe he is worth Tyreke Hill money).
Post #: 5752
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2023 10:17:18 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12067
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

I'm in the keep JJ camp.

If you aren't paying huge money to a QB... I don't have a problem paying an extremely young, extremely talented player at a position where you can play out a long contract and reasonably expect to keep level of play or even improve.

I think this team is going to need some superstars for a chance to win it all.
I think our biggest problem of that fun 2017 team was we didn't have any superstars.
The team was absolutely solid across the board.
But no one really dominated or put the team on their back in the playoffs.

The idea that you are going to turn JJ into a draft haul and then turn that into star players is a huge gamble.
I know it's not apples to apples... but Moss netted Napoleon Harris and Troy Williamson... that is absolutely a possibility.

JJ is a known.

ymmv

Have we won games without him... yes.

But I think the last couple games you are seeing what this offense is going to be now that teams know how to neutralize Addison.
Not much fun to watch.

My biggest issue with JJ is that he is coming off a hammy injury. Once the soft tissue injuries start coming, they never seem to stop. I hope I'm wrong.

The guy missed seven games with a hammy injury. That's a lot. I would have some reservations about a massive, long-term contract. I'd like to know when he was really ready to play, or if they held him out because they thought the loss of Cousins meant they had no real chance of making the playoffs. Four weeks later, they are still in the hunt.

Either way, seven games lost to a hammy is a long time. It must have been a bad one.

The injury is a concern.

Christian Watson is a comparison. When he plays, he is very good. But, he had hammy issues at NDSU and it looks like it is continuing with the Packers.
Post #: 5753
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2023 11:09:13 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17854
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

I'm in the keep JJ camp.

If you aren't paying huge money to a QB... I don't have a problem paying an extremely young, extremely talented player at a position where you can play out a long contract and reasonably expect to keep level of play or even improve.

I think this team is going to need some superstars for a chance to win it all.
I think our biggest problem of that fun 2017 team was we didn't have any superstars.
The team was absolutely solid across the board.
But no one really dominated or put the team on their back in the playoffs.

The idea that you are going to turn JJ into a draft haul and then turn that into star players is a huge gamble.
I know it's not apples to apples... but Moss netted Napoleon Harris and Troy Williamson... that is absolutely a possibility.

JJ is a known.

ymmv

Have we won games without him... yes.

But I think the last couple games you are seeing what this offense is going to be now that teams know how to neutralize Addison.
Not much fun to watch.


Good post, although I'm in the opposite camp (not totally). Wanted to mention yes draft picks are a gamble, and that's why a proven player or players should be part of any deal.

Also, if someone offers the value of the Moss trade you hang up. It's about equal value, but admittedly/again I don't know what that value is.

Anyway, the extension talks are likely to heat up in the offseason and he'll be a Viking. Now that Cousins is out of the way, they can afford JJ (I don't believe he is worth Tyreke Hill money).

Didn't McCombs neg the Moss trade on his way out? He obviously couldn't careless about the return.

_____________________________

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Post #: 5754
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2023 11:33:04 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18208
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
A tweet with O'Connell answering a question, I assume on his weekly show, which i've never seen and which seems obvious it's re the Bears and prob Broncos finish:

"... youre making decisions as an offense to limit risks knowning maybe youre not at full capacity as far as your personal goes but I do believe in the end ... where we're going to get to as a football team, where we are going ... we're going to have to find ways to win football games ... finish football games, if that takes being more aggressive, kind of buck the trends of the clock, field position, so be it, we're going to do what we feel is best to win each and every opportunity we have left and that's from the first snap and riding that wave until the last snap. That's our job as coaches and we'll continue to improve on that.

https://x.com/verysadvikings/status/1733383627105272200?s=20

I know we'd all like to see a much more aggressive approach to gaining the much needed clock killing first down without turning the ball over or stopping the clock with the opp saving TOs. We'll see..
Post #: 5755
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2023 11:44:01 AM   
Daniel Lee Young


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Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: offline
It’s all talk until I see him pull his head out of his ass in game critical playcalling..

It’s not just End Of Game ..

Losing yards happens on plays because defenses can make plays.. but running a middle screen on third and short or medium is like throwing gasoline on a bonfire from 2 yards away.

You are playing with fire and the defense is the fire..

You are gonna get burned by being a knucklehead…

_____________________________

"Thou shall not bear false witness”
I am WRATH, incarnate.
@RlyeeNicole’sDad
Post #: 5756
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2023 1:06:38 PM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

A tweet with O'Connell answering a question, I assume on his weekly show, which i've never seen and which seems obvious it's re the Bears and prob Broncos finish:

"... youre making decisions as an offense to limit risks knowning maybe youre not at full capacity as far as your personal goes but I do believe in the end ... where we're going to get to as a football team, where we are going ... we're going to have to find ways to win football games ... finish football games, if that takes being more aggressive, kind of buck the trends of the clock, field position, so be it, we're going to do what we feel is best to win each and every opportunity we have left and that's from the first snap and riding that wave until the last snap. That's our job as coaches and we'll continue to improve on that.

https://x.com/verysadvikings/status/1733383627105272200?s=20

I know we'd all like to see a much more aggressive approach to gaining the much needed clock killing first down without turning the ball over or stopping the clock with the opp saving TOs. We'll see..

Probably can't question his work ethic:

https://twitter.com/adampatrickNFL/status/1733228200405463255

I'm optimistic he'll figure it out.
Post #: 5757
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2023 2:00:56 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18208
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
Optimism is good. I'm gonna be "riding that wave" with you
Post #: 5758
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2023 3:09:12 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9322
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online
.
.
Vikings OC Wes Phillips Arrested for Misdemeanor DWI, Will Travel to Las Vegas

Minnesota Vikings offensive coordinator Wes Phillips was arrested and charged for driving while under the influence on Friday Night, according to Hennepin County jail records. ESPN’s Kevin Seifert was the first ot break the news.

Phillips was pulled over and subsequently arrested just outside of Minneapolis at 11PM CST, before being released at 1:26AM CST after posting a $300 bond. His first court appearance is scheduled on December 21st. The Minnesota Vikings released a statement on the matter saying quote:

“Wes immediately notified the team following his arrest last night,” the Viking said in a statement. “This morning we contacted the NFL, and after internal discussion, made the decision Wes will travel with the team to Las Vegas this afternoon. We will continue to gather information regarding the incident and have further comment at the appropriate time.”


Tom Pelissero@TomPelissero
#Vikings OC Wes Phillips was arrested at approximately 10 p.m. Friday on a misdemeanor DUI charge, blowing 0.08 after being pulled over by the Minnesota State Patrol. He was released from jail a few hours later and will travel today with the team to Las Vegas.

< Message edited by ratoppenheimer -- 12/9/2023 3:21:14 PM >


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the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5759
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2023 3:34:40 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18208
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
.08?

Oh my!
Post #: 5760
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2023 3:41:14 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9322
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

.08?

Oh my!



better stay in tonight, ricky - they're out there looking for you....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5761
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2023 4:04:07 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18208
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

.08?

Oh my!



better stay in tonight, ricky - they're out there looking for you....

I hear ya, brother!
Post #: 5762
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2023 4:10:19 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 2219
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

I'm in the keep JJ camp.

If you aren't paying huge money to a QB... I don't have a problem paying an extremely young, extremely talented player at a position where you can play out a long contract and reasonably expect to keep level of play or even improve.

I think this team is going to need some superstars for a chance to win it all.
I think our biggest problem of that fun 2017 team was we didn't have any superstars.
The team was absolutely solid across the board.
But no one really dominated or put the team on their back in the playoffs.

The idea that you are going to turn JJ into a draft haul and then turn that into star players is a huge gamble.
I know it's not apples to apples... but Moss netted Napoleon Harris and Troy Williamson... that is absolutely a possibility.

JJ is a known.

ymmv

Have we won games without him... yes.

But I think the last couple games you are seeing what this offense is going to be now that teams know how to neutralize Addison.
Not much fun to watch.

My biggest issue with JJ is that he is coming off a hammy injury. Once the soft tissue injuries start coming, they never seem to stop. I hope I'm wrong.

The guy missed seven games with a hammy injury. That's a lot. I would have some reservations about a massive, long-term contract. I'd like to know when he was really ready to play, or if they held him out because they thought the loss of Cousins meant they had no real chance of making the playoffs. Four weeks later, they are still in the hunt.

Either way, seven games lost to a hammy is a long time. It must have been a bad one.


I would also love to know when he was ready to play... it certainly could be my biased opinion but I suspect the plan was to hold him out until the bye all along.

That being said.

A guy misses his FRIST games in his fourth year of crazy good production and you immediately jump to getting rid of him?!?!?
(and by the way... he has been one of the LEAST diva like elite WR in the league)

That doesn't strike me as sound franchise management.

If it were chronic injuries... sure, you evaluate... but the idea that this is going to lead chronic issues, lack of production, etc... is RABID speculation.
Post #: 5763
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2023 4:13:40 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 2219
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

I'm in the keep JJ camp.

If you aren't paying huge money to a QB... I don't have a problem paying an extremely young, extremely talented player at a position where you can play out a long contract and reasonably expect to keep level of play or even improve.

I think this team is going to need some superstars for a chance to win it all.
I think our biggest problem of that fun 2017 team was we didn't have any superstars.
The team was absolutely solid across the board.
But no one really dominated or put the team on their back in the playoffs.

The idea that you are going to turn JJ into a draft haul and then turn that into star players is a huge gamble.
I know it's not apples to apples... but Moss netted Napoleon Harris and Troy Williamson... that is absolutely a possibility.

JJ is a known.

ymmv

Have we won games without him... yes.

But I think the last couple games you are seeing what this offense is going to be now that teams know how to neutralize Addison.
Not much fun to watch.

My biggest issue with JJ is that he is coming off a hammy injury. Once the soft tissue injuries start coming, they never seem to stop. I hope I'm wrong.

The guy missed seven games with a hammy injury. That's a lot. I would have some reservations about a massive, long-term contract. I'd like to know when he was really ready to play, or if they held him out because they thought the loss of Cousins meant they had no real chance of making the playoffs. Four weeks later, they are still in the hunt.

Either way, seven games lost to a hammy is a long time. It must have been a bad one.

The injury is a concern.

Christian Watson is a comparison. When he plays, he is very good. But, he had hammy issues at NDSU and it looks like it is continuing with the Packers.


JJ had 3 NFL years of zero injury issues while putting up over 4500 yards of offense.

Watson injury issues in college and those continued immediately in the NFL while putting up lackluster numbers.

I don't see them as comparable.
Post #: 5764
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2023 5:26:35 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19084
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline
Has this franchise ever gone through an entire bye week without someone getting a DUI, shot, sexual assault ect.....?
Post #: 5765
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2023 7:03:13 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22667
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

I'm in the keep JJ camp.

If you aren't paying huge money to a QB... I don't have a problem paying an extremely young, extremely talented player at a position where you can play out a long contract and reasonably expect to keep level of play or even improve.

I think this team is going to need some superstars for a chance to win it all.
I think our biggest problem of that fun 2017 team was we didn't have any superstars.
The team was absolutely solid across the board.
But no one really dominated or put the team on their back in the playoffs.

The idea that you are going to turn JJ into a draft haul and then turn that into star players is a huge gamble.
I know it's not apples to apples... but Moss netted Napoleon Harris and Troy Williamson... that is absolutely a possibility.

JJ is a known.

ymmv

Have we won games without him... yes.

But I think the last couple games you are seeing what this offense is going to be now that teams know how to neutralize Addison.
Not much fun to watch.

My biggest issue with JJ is that he is coming off a hammy injury. Once the soft tissue injuries start coming, they never seem to stop. I hope I'm wrong.

The guy missed seven games with a hammy injury. That's a lot. I would have some reservations about a massive, long-term contract. I'd like to know when he was really ready to play, or if they held him out because they thought the loss of Cousins meant they had no real chance of making the playoffs. Four weeks later, they are still in the hunt.

Either way, seven games lost to a hammy is a long time. It must have been a bad one.


I would also love to know when he was ready to play... it certainly could be my biased opinion but I suspect the plan was to hold him out until the bye all along.

That being said.

A guy misses his FRIST games in his fourth year of crazy good production and you immediately jump to getting rid of him?!?!?
(and by the way... he has been one of the LEAST diva like elite WR in the league)

That doesn't strike me as sound franchise management.

If it were chronic injuries... sure, you evaluate... but the idea that this is going to lead chronic issues, lack of production, etc... is RABID speculation.

That's not an accurate account of what I said. I never said I wanted to get rid of him.

Without being inside the front office or training room, there is a lot of speculation by all of us. All I said was, seven games to a hammy is a lot and I'd be very concerned about giving him a huge, long-term deal as a result. Without knowing all of the variables, I think that's fair.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 12/10/2023 7:05:13 AM >


_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5766
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2023 8:46:39 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18208
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

I'm in the keep JJ camp.

If you aren't paying huge money to a QB... I don't have a problem paying an extremely young, extremely talented player at a position where you can play out a long contract and reasonably expect to keep level of play or even improve.

I think this team is going to need some superstars for a chance to win it all.
I think our biggest problem of that fun 2017 team was we didn't have any superstars.
The team was absolutely solid across the board.
But no one really dominated or put the team on their back in the playoffs.

The idea that you are going to turn JJ into a draft haul and then turn that into star players is a huge gamble.
I know it's not apples to apples... but Moss netted Napoleon Harris and Troy Williamson... that is absolutely a possibility.

JJ is a known.

ymmv

Have we won games without him... yes.

But I think the last couple games you are seeing what this offense is going to be now that teams know how to neutralize Addison.
Not much fun to watch.

My biggest issue with JJ is that he is coming off a hammy injury. Once the soft tissue injuries start coming, they never seem to stop. I hope I'm wrong.

The guy missed seven games with a hammy injury. That's a lot. I would have some reservations about a massive, long-term contract. I'd like to know when he was really ready to play, or if they held him out because they thought the loss of Cousins meant they had no real chance of making the playoffs. Four weeks later, they are still in the hunt.

Either way, seven games lost to a hammy is a long time. It must have been a bad one.


I would also love to know when he was ready to play... it certainly could be my biased opinion but I suspect the plan was to hold him out until the bye all along.

That being said.

A guy misses his FRIST games in his fourth year of crazy good production and you immediately jump to getting rid of him?!?!?
(and by the way... he has been one of the LEAST diva like elite WR in the league)

That doesn't strike me as sound franchise management.

If it were chronic injuries... sure, you evaluate... but the idea that this is going to lead chronic issues, lack of production, etc... is RABID speculation.

That's not an accurate account of what I said. I never said I wanted to get rid of him.

Without being inside the front office or training room, there is a lot of speculation by all of us. All I said was, seven games to a hammy is a lot and I'd be very concerned about giving him a huge, long-term deal as a result. Without knowing all of the variables, I think that's fair.

Bummer for him. Backside of his rookie deal, looking for the big money, and you come up with a hamstring injury. Im thinking "Let's get back out there and win one for the team," probably took a back seat to extra caution. In the salary cap world how can you look at Jefferson the same as you did prior to the injury?
Post #: 5767
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2023 8:55:41 AM   
Brad H


Posts: 22667
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/houseoftakes/episodes/EAGLES-vs-COWBOYS--PRESCOTT-WILL-TAKE-ADVANTAGE-OF-THE-EAGLES-SECONDARY--NFL-WEEK-14-BEST-BETS-e2d0054

Experts taking the Vikes.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5768
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2023 10:12:11 AM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18208
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
Hey, not trying to be offensive or anything - I guess it's just my nature to be a SA - but shouldnt experts be in italics? ;)
Post #: 5769
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2023 10:51:18 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 39817
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
lol
Post #: 5770
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2023 10:53:11 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 39817
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
JJ was not 7 weeks recovery injured.
Post #: 5771
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2023 6:27:11 PM   
marty


Posts: 12739
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline
Just to be clear, I am not solidly in the make BFlo the head coach camp, but I would consider it during the off-season.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 5772
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2023 7:01:59 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18208
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Just to be clear, I am not solidly in the make BFlo the head coach camp, but I would consider it during the off-season.

If we don't win by a couple of TDs we are so negative. Wait, we haven't won by 2 scores in like 22 games ;)
Post #: 5773
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2023 7:08:13 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12067
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Just to be clear, I am not solidly in the make BFlo the head coach camp, but I would consider it during the off-season.

If we don't win by a couple of TDs we are so negative. Wait, we haven't won by 2 scores in like 22 games ;)

We've scored 1 TD in the last 9 quarters.
Post #: 5774
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2023 7:09:34 PM   
Daniel Lee Young


Posts: 12862
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: offline
Bumpity bump bump bump..

Really?

Really?


Afield goal with 2 mi utes to go on y he road?

Against the raiders?

Cincinnati is gonna roll us..


“All Talk” turns out to be a compliment…

I can’t imagine the game day thread..

Looks like Dobbs is what we thought he is.. crown his ass..

Did they bench him for mullet mulligans?

A wins a win right?

Draft position is trivial, next to getting into the playoffs..

At this point it’s all I have to hope for, and that we actually do better than 1 and dnd…

All you hus in Vegas put a dollar on vikes wing the di ion Al fond..

lol…
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

It’s all talk until I see him pull his head out of his ass in game critical playcalling..

It’s not just End Of Game ..

Losing yards happens on plays because defenses can make plays.. but running a middle screen on third and short or medium is like throwing gasoline on a bonfire from 2 yards away.

You are playing with fire and the defense is the fire..

You are gonna get burned by being a knucklehead…


_____________________________

"Thou shall not bear false witness”
I am WRATH, incarnate.
@RlyeeNicole’sDad
Post #: 5775
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