quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I think we are going to regret moving on from Daniels so quickly. The GB game was so very ugly, I don't know what we could have done differently.... Maybe practice squad?

Impressed he and his agent turned down a chance to tryout with another team. Took some time to regroup then signed with the Raiders, setting a Raiders rookie accuracy record.

https://247sports.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/Article/Daniel-Carlson-recaps-unique-rookie-season-132846108

Have to agree here.

I think Zim's old school (Parcells) approach may have been over the top for a young rookie kicker.

He went to the Raiders where it was a no pressure situation.

I don't buy that. He was kicking for his career in Oakland.

Are kickers on bad teams usually more accurate than kickers on good teams because of "lack of pressure".

Its OK to admit we effed up.

We effed up with Walsh, not sure about Carlson. Our typical eff up is holding onto guys too long - including Walsh - which probably influenced our lack of patience with Carlson ...

I think you make a decision at the time and live with it. If it seems like the rookie cannot handle or is not ready for NFL game day pressure because, well, he seems to be falling apart in games ... and how else can you know? (its not like NFL teams have back-up kickers so, if you lose confidence in a guy, you can rotate or put Carlson on the bench for awhile or deactivate him for a couple game days [how would that help his confidence?]).

I think its more of a shame for us than a pure eff up, that we invested a draft pick, then baptised Carlson in fire so he could go somewhere else and make a quick stunning non-Walsh-like turnaround. Kudos to him.

I think it was having a ST coach that loved to tinker with mechanics. He did it with Walsh, he did it with Carlson. Hell, he said he spotted some things he wanted to change with the most accurate kicker in NFL history and he fell apart here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I think we are going to regret moving on from Daniels so quickly. The GB game was so very ugly, I don't know what we could have done differently.... Maybe practice squad?

Impressed he and his agent turned down a chance to tryout with another team. Took some time to regroup then signed with the Raiders, setting a Raiders rookie accuracy record.

https://247sports.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/Article/Daniel-Carlson-recaps-unique-rookie-season-132846108

Have to agree here.

I think Zim's old school (Parcells) approach may have been over the top for a young rookie kicker.

He went to the Raiders where it was a no pressure situation.

I don't buy that. He was kicking for his career in Oakland.

Are kickers on bad teams usually more accurate than kickers on good teams because of "lack of pressure".

Its OK to admit we effed up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I think we are going to regret moving on from Daniels so quickly. The GB game was so very ugly, I don't know what we could have done differently.... Maybe practice squad?

Impressed he and his agent turned down a chance to tryout with another team. Took some time to regroup then signed with the Raiders, setting a Raiders rookie accuracy record.

https://247sports.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/Article/Daniel-Carlson-recaps-unique-rookie-season-132846108

Have to agree here.

I think Zim's old school (Parcells) approach may have been over the top for a young rookie kicker.

He went to the Raiders where it was a no pressure situation.

I don't buy that. He was kicking for his career in Oakland.

Are kickers on bad teams usually more accurate than kickers on good teams because of "lack of pressure".

Its OK to admit we effed up.

There is no comparison to the pressure of a FG attempt with the game on the line for a team that is supposed to be a contender, vs a FG attempt behind or ahead by 10+ points for a floundering team where making the field goal or missing it has no bearing on that teams season. Or even a FG attempt with the game on the line for that floundering team makes little difference in their season (other than a make might mean worse draft position), hence little pressure. I don't totally discount the "career on the line pressure" concept, I just think it takes a major back seat to the "failure will cause your team's season to fall apart pressure" concept.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I think we are going to regret moving on from Daniels so quickly. The GB game was so very ugly, I don't know what we could have done differently.... Maybe practice squad?

Impressed he and his agent turned down a chance to tryout with another team. Took some time to regroup then signed with the Raiders, setting a Raiders rookie accuracy record.

https://247sports.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/Article/Daniel-Carlson-recaps-unique-rookie-season-132846108

Have to agree here.

I think Zim's old school (Parcells) approach may have been over the top for a young rookie kicker.

He went to the Raiders where it was a no pressure situation.

I don't buy that. He was kicking for his career in Oakland.

Are kickers on bad teams usually more accurate than kickers on good teams because of "lack of pressure".

Its OK to admit we effed up.

There is no comparison to the pressure of a FG attempt with the game on the line for a team that is supposed to be a contender, vs a FG attempt behind or ahead by 10+ points for a floundering team where making the field goal or missing it has no bearing on that teams season. Or even a FG attempt with the game on the line for that floundering team makes little difference in their season (other than a make might mean worse draft position), hence little pressure. I don't totally discount the "career on the line pressure" concept, I just think it takes a major back seat to the "failure will cause your team's season to fall apart pressure" concept.

Sounds like desperate spinning instead of admitting the Vikings screwed up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I think we are going to regret moving on from Daniels so quickly. The GB game was so very ugly, I don't know what we could have done differently.... Maybe practice squad?

Impressed he and his agent turned down a chance to tryout with another team. Took some time to regroup then signed with the Raiders, setting a Raiders rookie accuracy record.

https://247sports.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/Article/Daniel-Carlson-recaps-unique-rookie-season-132846108

Have to agree here.

I think Zim's old school (Parcells) approach may have been over the top for a young rookie kicker.

He went to the Raiders where it was a no pressure situation.

I don't buy that. He was kicking for his career in Oakland.

Are kickers on bad teams usually more accurate than kickers on good teams because of "lack of pressure".

Its OK to admit we effed up.

There is no comparison to the pressure of a FG attempt with the game on the line for a team that is supposed to be a contender, vs a FG attempt behind or ahead by 10+ points for a floundering team where making the field goal or missing it has no bearing on that teams season. Or even a FG attempt with the game on the line for that floundering team makes little difference in their season (other than a make might mean worse draft position), hence little pressure. I don't totally discount the "career on the line pressure" concept, I just think it takes a major back seat to the "failure will cause your team's season to fall apart pressure" concept.

Sounds like desperate spinning instead of admitting the Vikings screwed up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I think we are going to regret moving on from Daniels so quickly. The GB game was so very ugly, I don't know what we could have done differently.... Maybe practice squad?

Impressed he and his agent turned down a chance to tryout with another team. Took some time to regroup then signed with the Raiders, setting a Raiders rookie accuracy record.

https://247sports.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/Article/Daniel-Carlson-recaps-unique-rookie-season-132846108

Have to agree here.

I think Zim's old school (Parcells) approach may have been over the top for a young rookie kicker.

He went to the Raiders where it was a no pressure situation.

I don't buy that. He was kicking for his career in Oakland.

Are kickers on bad teams usually more accurate than kickers on good teams because of "lack of pressure".

Its OK to admit we effed up.

There is no comparison to the pressure of a FG attempt with the game on the line for a team that is supposed to be a contender, vs a FG attempt behind or ahead by 10+ points for a floundering team where making the field goal or missing it has no bearing on that teams season. Or even a FG attempt with the game on the line for that floundering team makes little difference in their season (other than a make might mean worse draft position), hence little pressure. I don't totally discount the "career on the line pressure" concept, I just think it takes a major back seat to the "failure will cause your team's season to fall apart pressure" concept.

Sounds like desperate spinning instead of admitting the Vikings screwed up.

Sounds like trying not to be too simplistic in one’s answer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/06/14/vikings-te-david-morgan-had-arthroscopic-surgery-on-knee/

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

More special teams? I think he's already active with that, but if we do indeed go heavy with 2 tight formations, then perhaps he will get more snaps. I don't know.

I have a hunch Beebe's play will demand more snaps.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I think we are going to regret moving on from Daniels so quickly. The GB game was so very ugly, I don't know what we could have done differently.... Maybe practice squad?

Impressed he and his agent turned down a chance to tryout with another team. Took some time to regroup then signed with the Raiders, setting a Raiders rookie accuracy record.

https://247sports.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/Article/Daniel-Carlson-recaps-unique-rookie-season-132846108

Have to agree here.

I think Zim's old school (Parcells) approach may have been over the top for a young rookie kicker.

He went to the Raiders where it was a no pressure situation.

I don't buy that. He was kicking for his career in Oakland.

Are kickers on bad teams usually more accurate than kickers on good teams because of "lack of pressure".

Its OK to admit we effed up.

There is no comparison to the pressure of a FG attempt with the game on the line for a team that is supposed to be a contender, vs a FG attempt behind or ahead by 10+ points for a floundering team where making the field goal or missing it has no bearing on that teams season. Or even a FG attempt with the game on the line for that floundering team makes little difference in their season (other than a make might mean worse draft position), hence little pressure. I don't totally discount the "career on the line pressure" concept, I just think it takes a major back seat to the "failure will cause your team's season to fall apart pressure" concept.

Sounds like desperate spinning instead of admitting the Vikings screwed up.

Sounds like trying not to be too simplistic in one’s answer.

I think we screwed up on multiple fronts.

1. We tried to "fix" a kicker that wasn't broken.
2. We had a hard ass ST coach that admitted to not caring at all about the psychological aspect of players, and a HC that backed him 100%.
3. If you're going to draft your kicker, maybe give him more than 1 good game and 1 bad game before pulling the plug. Otherwise don't draft a kicker.

What I don't buy is that his success in Oakland came because he had "no pressure on him". Daniel Carlson missed 3 of his first 4 kicks and we cut him. Sebastian Janikowski missed 3 of his first 5 kicks (including his first 2) and they're probably pretty glad they stuck with him.

quote:

[after being released by Vikings] "... Carlson and his wife hopped in the car. They drove three hours south to Ankeny, Iowa, the home of renowned special teams guru Jamie Kohl. Carlson spent four days with Kohl making technical adjustments, namely to the length of his strides preceding kicks."

"Carlson says things he wanted to work on because he didn’t have time in between the end of his senior season and the beginning of the NFL season to shorten his strides before kicks, with the combine, pro day, private workouts and training camp affording little time to overhaul mechanics."

"Kohl said he noticed this flaw back in February, that Carlson’s elongated strides only helped make kicks in practice but not in games, when compact run-ups help combat charging NFL defensive linemen. Kohl, who has known Carlson for almost a decade, brought in long-snappers and holders to help. Carlson and his wife stayed with Kohl’s family for the final three days of a four-day workout. Normally Carlson wouldn’t kick on back-to-back days, but he wanted to for muscle memory. Over those four days he shortened his strides so that he stood 20 inches closer to the ball when he reached set position."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/20/how-raiders-kicker-daniel-carlson-re-ignited-his-nfl-career/

[after being released by Vikings] "... Carlson and his wife hopped in the car. They drove three hours south to Ankeny, Iowa, the home of renowned special teams guru Jamie Kohl. Carlson spent four days with Kohl making technical adjustments, namely to the length of his strides preceding kicks."

"Carlson says things he wanted to work on because he didn’t have time in between the end of his senior season and the beginning of the NFL season to shorten his strides before kicks, with the combine, pro day, private workouts and training camp affording little time to overhaul mechanics."

"Kohl said he noticed this flaw back in February, that Carlson’s elongated strides only helped make kicks in practice but not in games, when compact run-ups help combat charging NFL defensive linemen. Kohl, who has known Carlson for almost a decade, brought in long-snappers and holders to help. Carlson and his wife stayed with Kohl’s family for the final three days of a four-day workout. Normally Carlson wouldn’t kick on back-to-back days, but he wanted to for muscle memory. Over those four days he shortened his strides so that he stood 20 inches closer to the ball when he reached set position."

quote:

Carlson, though, attributed his turnaround to a subtle physical adjustment, making his motion “a little more compact,” according to Raiders reporters. At 6-foot-5, Carlson is significantly taller than most kickers, and while his “long levers” (as he coined) gave him more power, they also provided more moving parts.

Priefer claims the Vikings were also focused on compacting Carlson’s technique.

“That’s what we did here,” said Priefer. “He was really long when he got here, and we worked really hard all spring and all summer long at making him a compact approach.”

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/20/how-raiders-kicker-daniel-carlson-re-ignited-his-nfl-career/

[after being released by Vikings] "... Carlson and his wife hopped in the car. They drove three hours south to Ankeny, Iowa, the home of renowned special teams guru Jamie Kohl. Carlson spent four days with Kohl making technical adjustments, namely to the length of his strides preceding kicks."

"Carlson says things he wanted to work on because he didn’t have time in between the end of his senior season and the beginning of the NFL season to shorten his strides before kicks, with the combine, pro day, private workouts and training camp affording little time to overhaul mechanics."

"Kohl said he noticed this flaw back in February, that Carlson’s elongated strides only helped make kicks in practice but not in games, when compact run-ups help combat charging NFL defensive linemen. Kohl, who has known Carlson for almost a decade, brought in long-snappers and holders to help. Carlson and his wife stayed with Kohl’s family for the final three days of a four-day workout. Normally Carlson wouldn’t kick on back-to-back days, but he wanted to for muscle memory. Over those four days he shortened his strides so that he stood 20 inches closer to the ball when he reached set position."

So it took 4 days to completely fix his mechanics, but our coaching staff couldn't find less than a week to work with him between the draft and start of the season?

That makes us look even worse. Especially since Priefer himself says he worked with him on the same thing:

quote:

Carlson, though, attributed his turnaround to a subtle physical adjustment, making his motion “a little more compact,” according to Raiders reporters. At 6-foot-5, Carlson is significantly taller than most kickers, and while his “long levers” (as he coined) gave him more power, they also provided more moving parts.

Priefer claims the Vikings were also focused on compacting Carlson’s technique.

“That’s what we did here,” said Priefer. “He was really long when he got here, and we worked really hard all spring and all summer long at making him a compact approach.”

https://zonecoverage.com/2018/vikings/mike-priefer-on-what-went-amiss-with-daniel-carlson-blair-walsh/

So apparently Kohl did in 4 days what Preifer couldn't do "all spring and all summer long"...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/20/how-raiders-kicker-daniel-carlson-re-ignited-his-nfl-career/

[after being released by Vikings] "... Carlson and his wife hopped in the car. They drove three hours south to Ankeny, Iowa, the home of renowned special teams guru Jamie Kohl. Carlson spent four days with Kohl making technical adjustments, namely to the length of his strides preceding kicks."

"Carlson says things he wanted to work on because he didn’t have time in between the end of his senior season and the beginning of the NFL season to shorten his strides before kicks, with the combine, pro day, private workouts and training camp affording little time to overhaul mechanics."

"Kohl said he noticed this flaw back in February, that Carlson’s elongated strides only helped make kicks in practice but not in games, when compact run-ups help combat charging NFL defensive linemen. Kohl, who has known Carlson for almost a decade, brought in long-snappers and holders to help. Carlson and his wife stayed with Kohl’s family for the final three days of a four-day workout. Normally Carlson wouldn’t kick on back-to-back days, but he wanted to for muscle memory. Over those four days he shortened his strides so that he stood 20 inches closer to the ball when he reached set position."

So it took 4 days to completely fix his mechanics, but our coaching staff couldn't find less than a week to work with him between the draft and start of the season?

That makes us look even worse. Especially since Priefer himself says he worked with him on the same thing:

quote:

Carlson, though, attributed his turnaround to a subtle physical adjustment, making his motion “a little more compact,” according to Raiders reporters. At 6-foot-5, Carlson is significantly taller than most kickers, and while his “long levers” (as he coined) gave him more power, they also provided more moving parts.

Priefer claims the Vikings were also focused on compacting Carlson’s technique.

“That’s what we did here,” said Priefer. “He was really long when he got here, and we worked really hard all spring and all summer long at making him a compact approach.”

https://zonecoverage.com/2018/vikings/mike-priefer-on-what-went-amiss-with-daniel-carlson-blair-walsh/

So apparently Kohl did in 4 days what Preifer couldn't do "all spring and all summer long"...

Yup. Although I didn't realize Preiffer had worked on that issue as well.

It's very possible the team pulled the plug so quickly because they thought Carlson was just not going to be able to compact his swing more. (which is technically true if he had stayed on with Preiffer).

Maalouf may be the most under-rated change to this team this year. If he's decent.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

Well hell let’s have the next meeting of the “Puppies and Rainbow” council meeting at world famous Manny’s steakhouse (Highly overrated).

Dinner with Dorn and Ricky is definitely a positive event...

As with you, buddy! It's been way too long.

I would love that. I'd also throw out the offer at the KC away game this season. I realize I bailed on LA last year but this year I already have the tickets and hotel.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/20/how-raiders-kicker-daniel-carlson-re-ignited-his-nfl-career/

[after being released by Vikings] "... Carlson and his wife hopped in the car. They drove three hours south to Ankeny, Iowa, the home of renowned special teams guru Jamie Kohl. Carlson spent four days with Kohl making technical adjustments, namely to the length of his strides preceding kicks."

"Carlson says things he wanted to work on because he didn’t have time in between the end of his senior season and the beginning of the NFL season to shorten his strides before kicks, with the combine, pro day, private workouts and training camp affording little time to overhaul mechanics."

"Kohl said he noticed this flaw back in February, that Carlson’s elongated strides only helped make kicks in practice but not in games, when compact run-ups help combat charging NFL defensive linemen. Kohl, who has known Carlson for almost a decade, brought in long-snappers and holders to help. Carlson and his wife stayed with Kohl’s family for the final three days of a four-day workout. Normally Carlson wouldn’t kick on back-to-back days, but he wanted to for muscle memory. Over those four days he shortened his strides so that he stood 20 inches closer to the ball when he reached set position."

So it took 4 days to completely fix his mechanics, but our coaching staff couldn't find less than a week to work with him between the draft and start of the season?

That makes us look even worse. Especially since Priefer himself says he worked with him on the same thing:

quote:

Carlson, though, attributed his turnaround to a subtle physical adjustment, making his motion “a little more compact,” according to Raiders reporters. At 6-foot-5, Carlson is significantly taller than most kickers, and while his “long levers” (as he coined) gave him more power, they also provided more moving parts.

Priefer claims the Vikings were also focused on compacting Carlson’s technique.

“That’s what we did here,” said Priefer. “He was really long when he got here, and we worked really hard all spring and all summer long at making him a compact approach.”

https://zonecoverage.com/2018/vikings/mike-priefer-on-what-went-amiss-with-daniel-carlson-blair-walsh/

So apparently Kohl did in 4 days what Preifer couldn't do "all spring and all summer long"...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Its weird that

Carlson claims he didn’t have enough time to change his mechanics between college and the NFL season ...

Priefer claims that they worked all offseason on doing just that ...

Kohl claims he could see the problem in February and needed just 4 days to implement the change (although that included a couple months of working on it between the Vikes and Raiders).