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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 1:34:08 PM 1 votes

David Levine

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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

we don't have a preference....we're telling you the team clearly prefers Mannion (Matthew Coller on Twitter)

Sloter is going to end up being "the one that got away" for the next decade...

Post #: 6501

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 1:49:54 PM

David Levine

Posts: 81183
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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Matthew Coller:

it's really not complicated... there's reason to keep Sloter but Mannion will be the No. 2. It's been clear since Day 1 of camp

Yeah, Gary knows exactly what he has. They love Mannion. He has a good arm, he's extremely smart and could probably hold down the fort for a game or two

It's not sports journalists, it's the team. The team has given Sloter literally zero second team reps in practice or camp. There's no indication that they think he can be the No. 2 in two years and I think Gary Kubiak probably knows what he's doing in analyzing QBs

Post #: 6502

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 2:03:23 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9916
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Lowest grades on offense for the #Vikings according to PFF

-Chad Beebe 47.2
-Cornelius Edison 43.8
-Pat Elflien 35.7

For Defense

-Holton Hill 43.7
-Curtis Cothran 43.4
-Anthony Harris 30.9

holton hill played better than that....

the pi penalty was questionable....
regarding the unnecessary roughness call; in realtime in looked more like the qb slide into hill and the helmet hit was accidental....

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 6503

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 2:20:09 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9916
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Everyone talks about Jalyn Holmes and Hercules Mata'afa but Armon Watts has quietly had himself a really good preseason as well. 4 tackles, 0.5 sack, 1 QB hit, and a pass break-up. (Purple Post on Twitter)

the main difference with these players is that watts is a natural 6'-5", 325+lb player - he's got the physical frame to be the prototypical monster in the middle...i was focused on him a little last night and i can see him becoming an akiem hicks type of player...he's got the body, now he needs a little coaching development...give him two seasons and he'll be scary good....

do not cut this guy....

we'll keep: joseph, stephen, holmes, mata'afa and watts....

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 6504

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 2:54:08 PM

Bill Jandro

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So much for Elflain being healthy this off season yada yada yada

I know it was one game but it's beginning to appear the guy just flat out stinks

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 6505

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 3:05:54 PM

Bill Jandro

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On a positive note it appears Bradbury and Kline are both pretty good.

Perhaps Jones should get a shot at playing LG with the ones. 90.5 is an exceptional grade albeit against the two's.

< Message edited by Bill Jandro -- 8/19/2019 3:07:55 PM >

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 6506

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 3:08:39 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9916
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

So much for Elflain being healthy this off season yada yada yada

I know it was one game but it's beginning to appear the guy just flat out stinks

yeah, i was wondering if jones would be a better option at left guard...but then, the whole line seemed to suck with run blocking yesterday....

< Message edited by ratoppenheimer -- 8/19/2019 3:25:29 PM >

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 6507

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 3:08:40 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 16560
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Sloater,( which is a funny way to pronounce Sloter), is to my eye, a better QB2.
Mobility, escapability, going thru reads, hitting guys in stride or finding best open option.
He just makes better plays and his play action is epically skilled.

Manion looks stiff, locks onto his first read and throws the ball to spots without touch or adjustment for possible disruption of the route tree.

He’s an autopilot QB, with zero command of the offense beyond first read and his mobility is limited..
Field vision is poor and he seems to be easily baited, play action is a “not fooling anyone” level of execution.

That said he seems to be Kubiac’s pretty lips and willing bottom boy, so stuck we are, with him.

Sloter makes the player around him look better because he is good at his craft, QBing.

Manion manages to make players look pedestrian, and his own miscues get blamed on “miscommunications” or other player doing something wrong.

That is too much like Ponder, for me.

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Deep Purple, Gand Funk Railroad, AC\DC, George and PinkFloyd, The Beetles, Jethro Tull, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, The Who

Post #: 6508

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 3:15:02 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18200
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Sloater,( which is a funny way to pronounce Sloter), is to my eye, a better QB2.
Mobility, escapability, going thru reads, hitting guys in stride or finding best open option.
He just makes better plays and his play action is epically skilled.

Manion looks stiff, locks onto his first read and throws the ball to spots without touch or adjustment for possible disruption of the route tree.

He’s an autopilot QB, with zero command of the offense beyond first read and his mobility is limited..
Field vision is poor and he seems to be easily baited, play action is a “not fooling anyone” level of execution.

That said he seems to be Kubiac’s pretty lips and willing bottom boy, so stuck we are, with him.

Sloter makes the player around him look better because he is good at his craft, QBing.

Manion manages to make players look pedestrian, and his own miscues get blamed on “miscommunications” or other player doing something wrong.

That is too much like Ponder, for me.

Noticed this. A little too much zip on the short passes. Albeit he was pretty accurate.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 6509

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 3:16:03 PM

Daniel Lee Young

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

So much for Elflain being healthy this off season yada yada yada

I know it was one game but it's beginning to appear the guy just flat out stinks

yeah, i was wondering if jones would be a better option at right guard...but then, the whole line seemed to suck with run blocking yesterday....

I disagree.

One, the fullback dive play for the touchdown, was perfection. They pushed the nose, the under and a couple linebackers three yards deep into the end zone, for the classic punch in.

We had many good runs, seams were created and yards made on short yardage situations.

Every team manages to blow up running plays, ours , theirs, everyone.

Situation and play calling have more to do with poorly executed runs, IMO.
Having a QB who will not check out of a bad play call at the line based on read of defense is another.

I thought that overall , especially in pass pro, the line even in preseason, looked much more in sync for a bunch of guys still getting used to a complete line shake up.

JMO..

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 8/19/2019 3:19:27 PM >

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Post #: 6510

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 3:18:11 PM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

we don't have a preference....we're telling you the team clearly prefers Mannion (Matthew Coller on Twitter)

Not sure I understand why coaches pre-annoint players.

Seemed Sloter got in to the jarius Wright dog house early in TC.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 6511

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 4:03:19 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Vikings rookie Oli Udoh's first 48 snaps at RT:
0 pressures, no penalties

Udoh has the 11th highest pass block grade of all tackles (of 121 tackles with 30+ snaps).

The only qualifying tackle graded higher than Udoh in both pass and run blocking is fellow rookie Andre Dillard.

(Krauser on Twitter)

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 6512

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 4:09:48 PM

Bruce Johnson

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PFF official stats are even worse than this for Gary: (Rashan Gary the first round pick of the Packers)
1 hurry, no sacks, no hits, no tackles, no stops.

(Krauser on Twitter)

Chase Winovich is supposedly doing much better for the Patriots.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 8/19/2019 4:11:11 PM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 6513

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 4:13:25 PM

David Levine

Posts: 81183
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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Vikings rookie Oli Udoh's first 48 snaps at RT:
0 pressures, no penalties

Udoh has the 11th highest pass block grade of all tackles (of 121 tackles with 30+ snaps).

The only qualifying tackle graded higher than Udoh in both pass and run blocking is fellow rookie Andre Dillard.

(Krauser on Twitter)

The Strib dude has him on the PS in today's column. I think if he plays anywhere near what he did the first 2 games in the next 2, he'll get sniped immediately.

Post #: 6514

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 4:18:37 PM

Bruce Johnson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Vikings rookie Oli Udoh's first 48 snaps at RT:
0 pressures, no penalties

Udoh has the 11th highest pass block grade of all tackles (of 121 tackles with 30+ snaps).

The only qualifying tackle graded higher than Udoh in both pass and run blocking is fellow rookie Andre Dillard.

(Krauser on Twitter)

The Strib dude has him on the PS in today's column. I think if he plays anywhere near what he did the first 2 games in the next 2, he'll get sniped immediately.

Good OT's are like gold. They go high in the draft.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 6515

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 4:34:51 PM

Bill Jandro

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Udoh needs to be on the 53.

Way too much potential there to risk exposing him.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 6516

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 4:43:16 PM

David Levine

Posts: 81183
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Vikings rookie Oli Udoh's first 48 snaps at RT:
0 pressures, no penalties

Udoh has the 11th highest pass block grade of all tackles (of 121 tackles with 30+ snaps).

The only qualifying tackle graded higher than Udoh in both pass and run blocking is fellow rookie Andre Dillard.

(Krauser on Twitter)

The Strib dude has him on the PS in today's column. I think if he plays anywhere near what he did the first 2 games in the next 2, he'll get sniped immediately.

Good OT's are like gold. They go high in the draft.

No. The easy OT picks go at the top of the draft. Good OTs can (and are) found all through the draft.

Smart teams don't care where guys were drafted once the draft is over.

Post #: 6517

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 5:12:22 PM

odin

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duplicate

< Message edited by odin -- 8/19/2019 5:24:39 PM >

Post #: 6518

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 5:12:58 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Offensive linemen often get devoloped on the NFL level because the college game is very different and o-linemen are not developed well at that level.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 6519

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 5:19:22 PM

odin

Posts: 2322
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Sloater,( which is a funny way to pronounce Sloter), is to my eye, a better QB2.
Mobility, escapability, going thru reads, hitting guys in stride or finding best open option.
He just makes better plays and his play action is epically skilled.

Manion looks stiff, locks onto his first read and throws the ball to spots without touch or adjustment for possible disruption of the route tree.

He’s an autopilot QB, with zero command of the offense beyond first read and his mobility is limited..
Field vision is poor and he seems to be easily baited, play action is a “not fooling anyone” level of execution.

That said he seems to be Kubiac’s pretty lips and willing bottom boy, so stuck we are, with him.

Sloter makes the player around him look better because he is good at his craft, QBing.

Manion manages to make players look pedestrian, and his own miscues get blamed on “miscommunications” or other player doing something wrong.

That is too much like Ponder, for me.

Agreed. To my eyes, it looks like Sloter's basement is significantly better than Mannion's ceiling. Perhaps Sloter has difficulty accepting the backup role due to his competitiveness?

quote:

Sloter said Saturday that coaches have talked to him about needing to play better in practice.

“I’m not one to make excuses, but it’s tough because right now they’re giving Sean the reps,’’ Sloter said. “I know I’ve got to be on point with the few reps that I do get. But I think that there’s a pretty clear reason why practice isn’t necessarily always 100 percent smooth is because I’m not out there getting the reps.

“It’s not an excuse. I’ve got to go out and perform my best no matter what the circumstances. But I’m a rhythm player. I feel like I’m a pretty instinctual player. I feel like when I get in the flow of the game … it’s easier to make throws rather than throwing one ball and then waiting 45 minutes to throw another.’’

Don't read the rest of this article unless you want to maintain a shred of hope that we aren't doomed to continue our status as the Washington Generals of the NFL as long as Zimmer is here. It made me throw up in my mouth a little because they'd rather have another tight-sphinctered drone than a "gun-slinger"who is fearless and can improvise (Sloter has thrown no ints. after 119 career preseason passes despite this label). Trevor Simian, like Sean Mannequin, was "better" lol.

< Message edited by odin -- 8/19/2019 5:52:26 PM >

Post #: 6520

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 5:26:53 PM

David Levine

Posts: 81183
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Offensive linemen often get devoloped on the NFL level because the college game is very different and o-linemen are not developed well at that level.

I'm kind of lost as to what point you're making? I really have no idea if you're agreeing with me, disagreeing with me, or just making random generalities.

Do you think Udoh should be on the PS? On the main roster? Does him being a 6th round pick color your perception?

Post #: 6521

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 5:28:12 PM

Ricky J

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Kyle Sloter @KyleSloter

The whole practice debate from some of these “professional analysts” is laughable 😂. Act like you know what’s going on. Please...

Post #: 6522

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 5:40:41 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 16560
Status: offline

Should KNOW Sloter is a better QB, when he managed to make fn Treadwell look competent.

_____________________________

Deep Purple, Gand Funk Railroad, AC\DC, George and PinkFloyd, The Beetles, Jethro Tull, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, The Who

Post #: 6523

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 5:51:47 PM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Kyle Sloter @KyleSloter

The whole practice debate from some of these “professional analysts” is laughable 😂. Act like you know what’s going on. Please...

That being said by the horse’s mouth, then what in the hell is keeping this kid out of the #2 QB slot?

Throws perhaps the best ball on the team.
Makes quick decisions
Fairly athletic (Wayyyyy more athletic then the sloth Mannion)

I’m not sure a player can/ has played better (albeit preseason) then Sloter has in his one preseason with Denver, and his 1 1/2 preseasons with us, and has less to show for it in the HISTORY OF THE NFL?

If it ain’t that he’s an absolute train wreck at practice, then what the hell is wrong with him.

Checks all the boxes for me.

Post #: 6524

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/19/2019 5:58:05 PM

odin

Posts: 2322
Joined: 11/23/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Kyle Sloter @KyleSloter

The whole practice debate from some of these “professional analysts” is laughable 😂. Act like you know what’s going on. Please...

That being said by the horse’s mouth, then what in the hell is keeping this kid out of the #2 QB slot?

Throws perhaps the best ball on the team.
Makes quick decisions
Fairly athletic (Wayyyyy more athletic then the sloth Mannion)

I’m not sure a player can/ has played better (albeit preseason) then Sloter has in his one preseason with Denver, and his 1 1/2 preseasons with us, and has less to show for it in the HISTORY OF THE NFL?

If it ain’t that he’s an absolute train wreck at practice, then what the hell is wrong with him.

Checks all the boxes for me.

They'd have to be better than 119 passes-89 comp. ( 74.8%) -957 yds-9 td-0 int. lol But it was against scrubs...wait a minute, Sloter was playing with scrubs too, more so than Mannequin at least.

< Message edited by odin -- 8/19/2019 5:59:22 PM >

Post #: 6525