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RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2020 7:22:29 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Not feeling too bad about the Diggs trade. He'd be on the team if he wanted to be but he didn't. We got a nice haul.


I'm sure he'll be happy in Buffalo. NOT!
Post #: 276
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2020 7:33:17 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

What will be left at Buffalo spot, pick 22 or do we now package picks to trade up?

I see the GM going all in if there is still no extentions for himself and coaching by draft time...


Sure, he might as well trade away our 1st round picks for the next 3 seasons to bolster this draft.
Post #: 277
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2020 7:33:47 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12084
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Not feeling too bad about the Diggs trade. He'd be on the team if he wanted to be but he didn't. We got a nice haul.


I'm sure he'll be happy in Buffalo. NOT!

Wait till Josh Allen leads him into a safety on a cold crisp day. Twitter time: Some cryptic message about Brady/Tampa.
Post #: 278
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2020 7:36:46 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77005
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

Let’s be clear, this makes the team immediately worse.
Trader Rick taking a big gamble, in what was already likely his last year
Needs to rebuild secondary, oline, dline and now WR
Wow this could be a loooong year

You hit the nail on the head.


Cant argue that at this time, this team got weaker because of this move, but I prefer to wait and see how it all shakes out before declaring it a poor move. I can't even imagine how the locker room would have been had Diggs stayed after the antics he showed these past couple of weeks. He had to go, no question, he made it crystal clear he wanted out, Rick had to get the best he could and I'm glad he got want he got.

We will see how it shakes out, but good things can happen without Diggs on the team, lets not forget, he had a number of drops in the past couple years and fumbles. He is good, but his attitude makes him drop down the top receiver list.

With or without Diggs, OL play and restocking the defense are most likely going to drive the success or failure of this season – compared to last year.

Thielen is a stud. You do not need two top ten WRs to generate an effective passing game that is set up off of the run game.

As you stated, its not like we gambled on trading an asset ... we traded an asset out of necessity. We'll move forward.


That is true.

But you better have at least 2 starting caliber WRs. Its obviously early, but right now our passing game looks like it will hurt the running game more than be built off of it.

I absolutely agree, its too early to say. That we'll be fine, or in my opinion, that all we have is Thielen.

Well ... let me restate that, you can say all we have is Thielen but why bother ... what we have right now has little to do with the WR position that we'll take into the season. It just isn't.


That is definitely hopeful thinking.

I just worry because we've been awful at targeting WRs under Spielman when we really need them - in the draft, free agency or trade.

Diggs and Thelen were amazing finds, but when you get them in the 5th round and undrafted, that screams luck more than anything. If he knew they'd be anywhere near as good as they are, we'd have taken them much sooner.

Do you really think we are going into next season with Thielen, Johnson, Beebe, Hollins, Davis? That's unrealistic IMO.

It's hopeful for me to expect something much MORE improved than that – I will give you that – because we just don't know who we will be adding to the mix.

As far as Spielman's track record ... yes, I agree and I stated yesterday that, to not convert some of the extra draft picks into veteran help (via trade / RFA tender etc) would be foolish, because all drafting is hit and miss and we are not in building mode - we are in sustaining what we had last year to improve this year mode.


Of course I don't think that, nor have I ever implied it.

My point is its easy to say we'll upgrade the position, but historically, its been difficult for us to do - especially when we've been "backed into a corner".

Trading Diggs creates another massive hole this team absolutely has to fill. And if we end up with another Treadwell or Doctson type of player, we're in really big trouble.
Post #: 279
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2020 9:14:13 PM   
kgdabom

 

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Ant Harris for Trent Williams?
Any thoughts?

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 280
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/17/2020 9:51:28 PM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

Ant Harris for Trent Williams?
Any thoughts?



Stoopid. Williams is asking for a new contract 20M/yr and is 31 (turning 32) years old. They would have to include Reiff (and Harris) which would get us 20M. Rather see what draft and in-house options are.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 281
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 1:07:04 AM   
kgdabom

 

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Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

Ant Harris for Trent Williams?
Any thoughts?



Stoopid. Williams is asking for a new contract 20M/yr and is 31 (turning 32) years old. They would have to include Reiff (and Harris) which would get us 20M. Rather see what draft and in-house options are.

It seems like the franchise tag on Ant is just a negotiating ploy to work out a trade. If we are trading for Williams assuming he is recovered and a great OT again is their anything wrong with including Reiff and having the salary be a wash?

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 282
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 8:59:25 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17867
Joined: 8/13/2007
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Lots of holes to fill

LG
DT
WR
CB
S

Filling some of these in house

LG Klein and put Samia at RG
DT is JJ ready
WR cupboard is bare
CB gonna need at least one more starting caliber one
S cupboard is bare if harris is traded

Looking like WR and CB are #1 needs and will need at least 2 from both positions

I prefer us to get stronger in the trenches first

< Message edited by Bill Jandro -- 3/18/2020 9:03:05 AM >


_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 283
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 9:06:03 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Lots of holes to fill

LG
DT
WR
CB
S

Filling some of these in house

LG Klein and put Samia at RG
DT is JJ ready
WR cupboard is bare
CB gonna need at least one more starting caliber one
S cupboard is bare if harris is traded

Looking like WR and CB are #1 needs and will need at least 2 from both positions

I prefer us to get stronger in the trenches first


Is Klein signed yet?

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 284
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 9:23:50 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Status: offline
Josh Allen, Stefon Diggs' new QB, is the worst deep passer in the NFL. He hit 15 of 59 attempts last season. 25.4%

(QB Datamine on Twitter)

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 285
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 9:27:17 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9338
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Lots of holes to fill

LG
DT
WR
CB
S

Filling some of these in house

LG Klein and put Samia at RG
DT is JJ ready
WR cupboard is bare
CB gonna need at least one more starting caliber one
S cupboard is bare if harris is traded

Looking like WR and CB are #1 needs and will need at least 2 from both positions

I prefer us to get stronger in the trenches first


Is Klein signed yet?


he signed a three-year deal last spring....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 286
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 9:31:01 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5711
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dana Turner

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

Let’s be clear, this makes the team immediately worse.
Trader Rick taking a big gamble, in what was already likely his last year
Needs to rebuild secondary, oline, dline and now WR
Wow this could be a loooong year

You hit the nail on the head.


Cant argue that at this time, this team got weaker because of this move, but I prefer to wait and see how it all shakes out before declaring it a poor move. I can't even imagine how the locker room would have been had Diggs stayed after the antics he showed these past couple of weeks. He had to go, no question, he made it crystal clear he wanted out, Rick had to get the best he could and I'm glad he got want he got.

We will see how it shakes out, but good things can happen without Diggs on the team, lets not forget, he had a number of drops in the past couple years and fumbles. He is good, but his attitude makes him drop down the top receiver list.

With or without Diggs, OL play and restocking the defense are most likely going to drive the success or failure of this season – compared to last year.

Thielen is a stud. You do not need two top ten WRs to generate an effective passing game that is set up off of the run game.

As you stated, its not like we gambled on trading an asset ... we traded an asset out of necessity. We'll move forward.


That is true.

But you better have at least 2 starting caliber WRs. Its obviously early, but right now our passing game looks like it will hurt the running game more than be built off of it.

I absolutely agree, its too early to say. That we'll be fine, or in my opinion, that all we have is Thielen.

Well ... let me restate that, you can say all we have is Thielen but why bother ... what we have right now has little to do with the WR position that we'll take into the season. It just isn't.


That is definitely hopeful thinking.

I just worry because we've been awful at targeting WRs under Spielman when we really need them - in the draft, free agency or trade.

Diggs and Thelen were amazing finds, but when you get them in the 5th round and undrafted, that screams luck more than anything. If he knew they'd be anywhere near as good as they are, we'd have taken them much sooner.

Do you really think we are going into next season with Thielen, Johnson, Beebe, Hollins, Davis? That's unrealistic IMO.

It's hopeful for me to expect something much MORE improved than that – I will give you that – because we just don't know who we will be adding to the mix.

As far as Spielman's track record ... yes, I agree and I stated yesterday that, to not convert some of the extra draft picks into veteran help (via trade / RFA tender etc) would be foolish, because all drafting is hit and miss and we are not in building mode - we are in sustaining what we had last year to improve this year mode.


Of course I don't think that, nor have I ever implied it.

My point is its easy to say we'll upgrade the position, but historically, its been difficult for us to do - especially when we've been "backed into a corner".

Trading Diggs creates another massive hole this team absolutely has to fill. And if we end up with another Treadwell or Doctson type of player, we're in really big trouble.

Well ... when I said the position will obviously change from what it is now, you said that 'that was wishful thinking'. Again, I have no idea what our WRs will look like to start season.

Maybe you thought that I implied that the change would automatically be an upgrade somehow ... to what? An upgrade to Diggs / Thielen? To Thielen / freakin' Bisi Johnson as the starters?

Given Treadwell, Patterson, Mitchell, Coley, Adams, Bohringer, Childs, etc. – draft expectations should be very low.

However, pointing to the failures above as proof of Spielman's incompetence while dismissing Thielen / Diggs as pure luck doesn't work for me either. Very very lucky yes but Thielen Diggs count on the balance sheet. They weren't forced on us. We invested in them when no one else did.

Am I confidant that we'll be fine without Diggs? No. Is Spielman incapable of finding a good WR? No.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 3/18/2020 10:04:10 AM >
Post #: 287
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 9:47:23 AM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 38619
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From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

Does anyone see O' Neill shifting to LT? I know there was talk of it before.


I believe that the only people that have ever discussed this possibility are fans like us in here.

My guess is O'Neill stays right where he is at RT

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I don't want to go through things that don't kill me and make me stronger anymore.
Post #: 288
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 10:08:48 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 44593
Joined: 7/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

Does anyone see O' Neill shifting to LT? I know there was talk of it before.


I believe that the only people that have ever discussed this possibility are fans like us in here.

My guess is O'Neill stays right where he is at RT

There has also been speculation in the fish wraps on both sides of the Mississippi. It will depend on a few things.
1. The Vikings offensive coaches would have to believe that O'Neill's skills would translate to the left side. That's not a given.
2. The availability of LT and LG in the draft and free agency.
3. Whether or not it is worth it. A lot of teams will move their top pass rusher to different spots on the line during the game to exploit mismatches. This could minimize the benefit of moving someone like O'Neill.

< Message edited by TJSweens -- 3/18/2020 10:09:53 AM >


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Post #: 289
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 10:17:59 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17867
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Odle

Does anyone see O' Neill shifting to LT? I know there was talk of it before.


I believe that the only people that have ever discussed this possibility are fans like us in here.

My guess is O'Neill stays right where he is at RT

There has also been speculation in the fish wraps on both sides of the Mississippi. It will depend on a few things.
1. The Vikings offensive coaches would have to believe that O'Neill's skills would translate to the left side. That's not a given.
2. The availability of LT and LG in the draft and free agency.
3. Whether or not it is worth it. A lot of teams will move their top pass rusher to different spots on the line during the game to exploit mismatches. This could minimize the benefit of moving someone like O'Neill.

I believe Zim was asked this in a recent presser and he commented that it is a possibility but then quickly moved to the next question

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 290
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 10:20:03 AM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 2274
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Report: Panthers Have Discussed Cam Newton With Bears

Trubisky and Newton ! Now there is a nice pair of QBs for Bears battling for starting QB!
Post #: 291
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 10:20:33 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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One thing of note in the wr discussion

Having two dangerous wr's in Diggs and Thelien certainly opened up the run game by keeping a S out of the box.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 292
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 10:21:28 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Report: Panthers Have Discussed Cam Newton With Bears

Trubisky and Newton ! Now there is a nice pair of QBs for Bears battling for starting QB!

So Newton is on the trading block?

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 293
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 10:23:57 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 77005
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Report: Panthers Have Discussed Cam Newton With Bears

Trubisky and Newton ! Now there is a nice pair of QBs for Bears battling for starting QB!

So Newton is on the trading block?


They just gave Teddy 63M. They probably don't want to pay Cam 20M to back him up.
Post #: 294
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 10:24:25 AM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 2274
Status: offline
Another thing of note in WR talk...

In 2018 Thielen had like 5 100 yard games to start the season... Then Diggs got pissy and hurt and missed some games and Thielen's game dropped severly. Extreme drop in production where he had like only one more 100 yard game that season.

Without Diggs both the running game and production of our ONLY GOOD WR Thielen will be changed dramaticly.
Post #: 295
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 10:27:06 AM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 2274
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Report: Panthers Have Discussed Cam Newton With Bears

Trubisky and Newton ! Now there is a nice pair of QBs for Bears battling for starting QB!

So Newton is on the trading block?



They just gave Teddy 63M. They probably don't want to pay Cam 20M to back him up.


Cam was told yesterday by team he was allowed to seek a trade.
Post #: 296
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 10:29:47 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17867
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Another thing of note in WR talk...

In 2018 Thielen had like 5 100 yard games to start the season... Then Diggs got pissy and hurt and missed some games and Thielen's game dropped severly. Extreme drop in production where he had like only one more 100 yard game that season.

Without Diggs both the running game and production of our ONLY GOOD WR Thielen will be changed dramaticly.

Have to wonder how much more gas Theilen has in the tank

I think we definitely need an explosive guy across from him. You know like Diggs...

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 297
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 10:33:53 AM   
Ragnarök


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Status: offline
https://purpleptsd.com/i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-but-this-is-what-the-start-of-a-rebuild-looks-like/

Some interesting takes that Im sure most of you guys here would shred on...
Post #: 298
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 10:44:37 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33667
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

https://purpleptsd.com/i-hate-to-break-it-to-you-but-this-is-what-the-start-of-a-rebuild-looks-like/

Some interesting takes that Im sure most of you guys here would shred on...

I think we still have a lot of talent, but I'm close to believing our best move is to go all in on a rebuild. The draft capital we have for the next two years is exceptional. If we release the franchise tag on Harris that will get us another 3rd round pick next year. The guy who wrote that article was acting like we were going to trade Harris for a 6th or 7th round pick. I don't know where he got that idea.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 299
RE: General Vikes Talk - 3/18/2020 10:45:33 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 44593
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Another thing of note in WR talk...

In 2018 Thielen had like 5 100 yard games to start the season... Then Diggs got pissy and hurt and missed some games and Thielen's game dropped severly. Extreme drop in production where he had like only one more 100 yard game that season.

Without Diggs both the running game and production of our ONLY GOOD WR Thielen will be changed dramaticly.

Have to wonder how much more gas Theilen has in the tank

I think we definitely need an explosive guy across from him. You know like Diggs...

I don't think there is an issue with how much Theilen has in the tank. When Diggs went out and the Vikings deploying 2 TE sets and then losing Cook for the final stretch of games, teams rolled their defenses to smother Theilen and dare us to beat them with just about anyone else.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 300
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