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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2020 3:35:57 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28612
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Chris Tomasson@christomasson

#Vikings TE Irv Smith Jr. (back) and DE D.J. Wonnum (bank/ankle) again don't practice today and are in line to not play Sunday against Jacksonville. TE Brandon Dillon in line to again be elevated from the practice squad.


Time for Rudolph to step up and make some kind of statement. No reason to hold anything back at this point. Through eleven games: 28 catches, 334 yards, 1 TD. Cap hit $8.8 million.



Time for Irv Smith to also "step up" with his 15 catches, 182 yards through 11 games. Doesn't even need to be a "statement"... maybe just exceed his 17 yards per game average.

Perhaps in week 13.
Post #: 5051
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2020 3:37:33 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

It's good to have Ezra Cleveland back for Sunday's game. Smith and Wonnum being out hurts, but we definitely want them healthy for the game against Tampa Bay.


Why does Smith being out hurt?
Post #: 5052
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2020 3:43:30 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Chris Tomasson@christomasson

#Vikings TE Irv Smith Jr. (back) and DE D.J. Wonnum (bank/ankle) again don't practice today and are in line to not play Sunday against Jacksonville. TE Brandon Dillon in line to again be elevated from the practice squad.


Time for Rudolph to step up and make some kind of statement. No reason to hold anything back at this point. Through eleven games: 28 catches, 334 yards, 1 TD. Cap hit $8.8 million.



Time for Irv Smith to also "step up" with his 15 catches, 182 yards through 11 games. Doesn't even need to be a "statement"... maybe just exceed his 17 yards per game average.

Perhaps in week 13.


Yes because Irv is one of the ‘faces of the franchise’ with multiple big money extensions and a fan favorite. At this point, barring some type of dynamic turnaround, Irv is nothing more than a second round bust that could have been an o-line pick.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5053
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2020 3:44:29 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28612
Status: offline 		It would be great for Irv Smith to average 20 yards per game in this his second season. In weeks 13-16, he needs an average of 35 yards per game to do this! Come on Irv!
Post #: 5054
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2020 3:59:10 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28612
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Chris Tomasson@christomasson

#Vikings TE Irv Smith Jr. (back) and DE D.J. Wonnum (bank/ankle) again don't practice today and are in line to not play Sunday against Jacksonville. TE Brandon Dillon in line to again be elevated from the practice squad.


Time for Rudolph to step up and make some kind of statement. No reason to hold anything back at this point. Through eleven games: 28 catches, 334 yards, 1 TD. Cap hit $8.8 million.



Time for Irv Smith to also "step up" with his 15 catches, 182 yards through 11 games. Doesn't even need to be a "statement"... maybe just exceed his 17 yards per game average.

Perhaps in week 13.


Yes because Irv is one of the ‘faces of the franchise’ with multiple big money extensions and a fan favorite. At this point, barring some type of dynamic turnaround, Irv is nothing more than a second round bust that could have been an o-line pick.


In his second year, Chase Ford went for 133 yards here with the same 12.1 ypc. Didn't cost us a second round pick as he was a no round pick.

Lots of hindsight, but A.J. Brown was picked right after Smith. Ouch! I liked our pick at the time.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 12/4/2020 4:03:42 PM >
Post #: 5055
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2020 4:07:31 PM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 39282
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: online 		Im not ready to give up on Irv. He is still TE2. With recieving options like JJ and Thielen and gagging, Rudy and also Cook ahead of him he just isn't getting the targets. Especially in a run first type offense.

It would help if he could play again.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”
Post #: 5056
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2020 4:19:34 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28612
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

Im not ready to give up on Irv. He is still TE2. With recieving options like JJ and Thielen and gagging, Rudy and also Cook ahead of him he just isn't getting the targets. Especially in a run first type offense.

It would help if he could play again.


Maybe his blocking prowess means he's essentially our blocking TE.
Post #: 5057
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2020 5:09:48 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Chris Tomasson@christomasson

#Vikings TE Irv Smith Jr. (back) and DE D.J. Wonnum (bank/ankle) again don't practice today and are in line to not play Sunday against Jacksonville. TE Brandon Dillon in line to again be elevated from the practice squad.


Time for Rudolph to step up and make some kind of statement. No reason to hold anything back at this point. Through eleven games: 28 catches, 334 yards, 1 TD. Cap hit $8.8 million.



Time for Irv Smith to also "step up" with his 15 catches, 182 yards through 11 games. Doesn't even need to be a "statement"... maybe just exceed his 17 yards per game average.

Perhaps in week 13.


Yes because Irv is one of the ‘faces of the franchise’ with multiple big money extensions and a fan favorite. At this point, barring some type of dynamic turnaround, Irv is nothing more than a second round bust that could have been an o-line pick.


In his second year, Chase Ford went for 133 yards here with the same 12.1 ypc. Didn't cost us a second round pick as he was a no round pick.

Lots of hindsight, but A.J. Brown was picked right after Smith. Ouch! I liked our pick at the time.


I didn't know much about Smith Jr. I was happy with the pick because I thought it signaled that the team was ready to move on from Rudolph. It turns out they weren't so the pick was stupid. The fact that it is also looking like a bust just doubles down on the stupid. The fact that on top of all of this we still committed just under $9 million in cap space to a fair-to-mediocre TE triples down on the stupid. These may be small mistakes but the small mistakes add up and if we make enough of them it leads to a non-winning environment. All that being said I really don't even give a FK anymore. I'm at peace with an organization that in general frequently makes easily avoidable small mistakes.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5058
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2020 6:05:28 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Chris Tomasson@christomasson

#Vikings TE Irv Smith Jr. (back) and DE D.J. Wonnum (bank/ankle) again don't practice today and are in line to not play Sunday against Jacksonville. TE Brandon Dillon in line to again be elevated from the practice squad.


Time for Rudolph to step up and make some kind of statement. No reason to hold anything back at this point. Through eleven games: 28 catches, 334 yards, 1 TD. Cap hit $8.8 million.



Time for Irv Smith to also "step up" with his 15 catches, 182 yards through 11 games. Doesn't even need to be a "statement"... maybe just exceed his 17 yards per game average.

Perhaps in week 13.


Maybe it's the "man's" plan to keep Smith down, so we can resign/extend him on the cheap.
Post #: 5059
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2020 6:21:54 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Chris Tomasson@christomasson

#Vikings TE Irv Smith Jr. (back) and DE D.J. Wonnum (bank/ankle) again don't practice today and are in line to not play Sunday against Jacksonville. TE Brandon Dillon in line to again be elevated from the practice squad.


Time for Rudolph to step up and make some kind of statement. No reason to hold anything back at this point. Through eleven games: 28 catches, 334 yards, 1 TD. Cap hit $8.8 million.



Time for Irv Smith to also "step up" with his 15 catches, 182 yards through 11 games. Doesn't even need to be a "statement"... maybe just exceed his 17 yards per game average.

Perhaps in week 13.


Maybe it's the "man's" plan to keep Smith down, so we can resign/extend him on the cheap.


Then he’ll pull a Harris/Wilson and have an elite season just before his rookie deal is up

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5060
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/4/2020 10:58:09 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online 		The dumb moves do add up. I like Rudy but both he and Barr were not wise moves considering our cap situation.

Ending up with literally no CB's on the roster (with no cap space) doesn't scream "good planning" either.

If one were to pile on: ext your qb in order to create 10ml in cap (thinking your on the cusp of a SB) and trade a 2nd rd pick for a DE that is neither a good system fit nor a player you have the cap space to sign long term.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5061
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2020 6:25:12 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Jacksonville gives up the most yards per completion in the #NFL, 3rd most passing yards, and has the fewest sacks per game.

Griddy up #Vikings fans.

Warren Ludford on Twitter

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 5062
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2020 9:34:55 AM   
Viking Rich

 

Posts: 3731
Joined: 2/28/2017
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Chris Tomasson@christomasson

#Vikings TE Irv Smith Jr. (back) and DE D.J. Wonnum (bank/ankle) again don't practice today and are in line to not play Sunday against Jacksonville. TE Brandon Dillon in line to again be elevated from the practice squad.


Time for Rudolph to step up and make some kind of statement. No reason to hold anything back at this point. Through eleven games: 28 catches, 334 yards, 1 TD. Cap hit $8.8 million.



Time for Irv Smith to also "step up" with his 15 catches, 182 yards through 11 games. Doesn't even need to be a "statement"... maybe just exceed his 17 yards per game average.

Perhaps in week 13.


Maybe it's the "man's" plan to keep Smith down, so we can resign/extend him on the cheap.


Then he’ll pull a Harris/Wilson and have an elite season just before his rookie deal is up

How about if the Vikings actually use Smith as a weapon?

As someone here stated earlier in the Season, the Vikings generally use their Tight Ends as blockers and checkdown options. Teams like KC actually implement the position as a major cog in the offense to do damage. The Vikings are satisfied limiting their options on offense and making themselves easier to deal with for the defense.

I think Irv Smith would be thriving on a team with an attack offense. If they use him, Smith would be just fine.

_____________________________

Here Comes the 2nd and Long Run...
Post #: 5063
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2020 9:44:13 AM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Jacksonville gives up the most yards per completion in the #NFL, 3rd most passing yards, and has the fewest sacks per game.

Griddy up #Vikings fans.

Warren Ludford on Twitter


Hopefully we try and exploit that. I expect that we'll still try to run on them and keep a 50/50 run-pass ratio unless it's the 4th quarter and the game situation dictates we finally throw more often.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5064
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2020 11:35:02 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		I asked a couple of scribes via Twitter what their opinion of Irv Smith Jr. was- if he was a bust.

I don’t think he’s a bust at all. He was playing really well before he got hurt. Maybe not the fantasy player they expected this year

Matthew Coller

Too early to say. He was improving before he got hurt, so I’m not prepared to write him off at this point. Most TEs take a while to develop

Warren Ludford

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 5065
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2020 11:38:40 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Jacksonville gives up the most yards per completion in the #NFL, 3rd most passing yards, and has the fewest sacks per game.

Griddy up #Vikings fans.

Warren Ludford on Twitter


Hopefully we try and exploit that. I expect that we'll still try to run on them and keep a 50/50 run-pass ratio unless it's the 4th quarter and the game situation dictates we finally throw more often.


If we build a nice lead, which is possible, then I could see more rushes, especially for Alexander Mattison since Davin Cook might need a bit of a break. I'm really hoping for a huge game from Justin Jefferson- like 200 yards. It would be cool if he gets more attention around the league as he deserves.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 5066
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2020 1:58:33 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Jacksonville gives up the most yards per completion in the #NFL, 3rd most passing yards, and has the fewest sacks per game.

Griddy up #Vikings fans.

Warren Ludford on Twitter


Hey, they're not no slouch against the run also.
Post #: 5067
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2020 3:39:33 PM   
Mr. Ed


Posts: 88732
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Minne-so-ta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Jacksonville gives up the most yards per completion in the #NFL, 3rd most passing yards, and has the fewest sacks per game.

Griddy up #Vikings fans.

Warren Ludford on Twitter


Hopefully we try and exploit that. I expect that we'll still try to run on them and keep a 50/50 run-pass ratio unless it's the 4th quarter and the game situation dictates we finally throw more often.


If we build a nice lead, which is possible, then I could see more rushes, especially for Alexander Mattison since Davin Cook might need a bit of a break. I'm really hoping for a huge game from Justin Jefferson- like 200 yards. It would be cool if he gets more attention around the league as he deserves.



Mattison is out for Sunday due to illness per the Vikings.

Boone time!

_____________________________

Escape while you can!
Post #: 5068
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2020 4:11:40 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Jacksonville gives up the most yards per completion in the #NFL, 3rd most passing yards, and has the fewest sacks per game.

Griddy up #Vikings fans.

Warren Ludford on Twitter


Hey, they're not no slouch against the run also.


Mattison is out so the Vikings really need to pass the ball.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 5069
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2020 6:09:41 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Jacksonville gives up the most yards per completion in the #NFL, 3rd most passing yards, and has the fewest sacks per game.

Griddy up #Vikings fans.

Warren Ludford on Twitter


Hey, they're not no slouch against the run also.


Don’t sell yourself short judge, you’re a terrific slouch.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 5070
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/5/2020 9:42:51 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Jacksonville gives up the most yards per completion in the #NFL, 3rd most passing yards, and has the fewest sacks per game.

Griddy up #Vikings fans.

Warren Ludford on Twitter


Hey, they're not no slouch against the run also.


Don’t sell yourself short judge, you’re a terrific slouch.


Hopefully tomorrow there will be no Cinderella story.
Post #: 5071
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2020 1:44:15 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		This analyst is critical of the Vikings interior offensive line and thinks that getting Cleveland back will help.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2020/word-muth-inner-turmoil

On Twitter I see a lot of interest in the high end receivers available in the upcoming draft. I really would like to see the offensive line fixed once and for all.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 12/6/2020 1:45:45 AM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 5072
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2020 9:02:09 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This analyst is critical of the Vikings interior offensive line and thinks that getting Cleveland back will help.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2020/word-muth-inner-turmoil

On Twitter I see a lot of interest in the high end receivers available in the upcoming draft. I really would like to see the offensive line fixed once and for all.

Good article.

Jones looks really bad in space. Glad Ezra is back this week.

Going forward we need a new starting LG and much better depth on the interior.

< Message edited by Bill Jandro -- 12/6/2020 9:18:55 AM >

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5073
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2020 10:36:15 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This analyst is critical of the Vikings interior offensive line and thinks that getting Cleveland back will help.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2020/word-muth-inner-turmoil

On Twitter I see a lot of interest in the high end receivers available in the upcoming draft. I really would like to see the offensive line fixed once and for all.

Good article.

Jones looks really bad in space. Glad Ezra is back this week.

Going forward we need a new starting LG and much better depth on the interior.


Wasn't Jones our highest PFF rated OL in that game?
Post #: 5074
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/6/2020 10:44:12 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9563
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This analyst is critical of the Vikings interior offensive line and thinks that getting Cleveland back will help.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2020/word-muth-inner-turmoil

On Twitter I see a lot of interest in the high end receivers available in the upcoming draft. I really would like to see the offensive line fixed once and for all.

Good article.

Jones looks really bad in space. Glad Ezra is back this week.

Going forward we need a new starting LG and much better depth on the interior.


Wasn't Jones our highest PFF rated OL in that game?



against carolina, he was....

• Jones: 74.0
• Reiff: 71.7

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5075
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