quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

And then there is this:

Minnesota Vikings guard Pat Elflein recorded the lowest PFF pass-blocking efficiency (95.6) of any qualifying guard in the NFL and allowed 38 total pressures in the process.

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-signature-stat-spotlight-offensive-line

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Do you mean play action or quarterback throwing on a roll out or even on the run?

Play action.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Do you mean play action or quarterback throwing on a roll out or even on the run?

Play action.

So play action can mean just sticking the ball in the running back's gut and still keeping it while standing in the pocket. It may slow down the pass rush or may not. Am I wrong about that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Do you mean play action or quarterback throwing on a roll out or even on the run?

Play action.

So play action can mean just sticking the ball in the running back's gut and still keeping it while standing in the pocket. It may slow down the pass rush or may not. Am I wrong about that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Do you mean play action or quarterback throwing on a roll out or even on the run?

Play action.

So play action can mean just sticking the ball in the running back's gut and still keeping it while standing in the pocket. It may slow down the pass rush or may not. Am I wrong about that?

I believe so.

Seems like we have Kirk roll out a lot. provided the defense doesn't leave an edge guy to this side Kirk has really good success. GB was leaving an edge guy home and it really seemd to rattle Kirk even though he'd still have plenty of time to get the throw off.

Kirk simply doesn't have the stomach for pressure. not a good quality for an NFL qb.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Do you mean play action or quarterback throwing on a roll out or even on the run?

Play action.

So play action can mean just sticking the ball in the running back's gut and still keeping it while standing in the pocket. It may slow down the pass rush or may not. Am I wrong about that?

I believe so.

Seems like we have Kirk roll out a lot. provided the defense doesn't leave an edge guy to this side Kirk has really good success. GB was leaving an edge guy home and it really seemd to rattle Kirk even though he'd still have plenty of time to get the throw off.

Kirk simply doesn't have the stomach for pressure. not a good quality for an NFL qb.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Do you mean play action or quarterback throwing on a roll out or even on the run?

Play action.

So play action can mean just sticking the ball in the running back's gut and still keeping it while standing in the pocket. It may slow down the pass rush or may not. Am I wrong about that?

I believe so.

Seems like we have Kirk roll out a lot. provided the defense doesn't leave an edge guy to this side Kirk has really good success. GB was leaving an edge guy home and it really seemd to rattle Kirk even though he'd still have plenty of time to get the throw off.

Kirk simply doesn't have the stomach for pressure. not a good quality for an NFL qb.

I respectfully disagree. I found this:

UNDER PRESSURE: 91.5 passer rating, +3.8% completion rate above expectation, 58.1% completion rate.

Cousins was a stud under pressure in the earliest years of NGS tracking, which helped destroy a narrative of him being average at the absolute best. But thanks to a play-action offense built out of an emphatic rushing attack led by Dalvin Cook, Cousins doesn't face as much pressure as he once did. Even with that considered, he still lands in the top five of most under-pressure metrics. His passer rating under pressure was fifth-best, his completion percentage under pressure was fourth-best and his completion percentage above expectation while pressured was also in the top five. You won't often see Cousins' name mentioned among the Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes of the league, but he has the numbers to back it up.

https://www.nfl.com/news/top-10-qbs-under-pressure-ryan-tannehill-derek-carr-shine

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Do you mean play action or quarterback throwing on a roll out or even on the run?

Play action.

So play action can mean just sticking the ball in the running back's gut and still keeping it while standing in the pocket. It may slow down the pass rush or may not. Am I wrong about that?

It can. Play action is simply a play form that initially involves a fake handoff to a RB, and evolves into a pass play, which can take on many forms.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Do you mean play action or quarterback throwing on a roll out or even on the run?

Play action.

So play action can mean just sticking the ball in the running back's gut and still keeping it while standing in the pocket. It may slow down the pass rush or may not. Am I wrong about that?

It can. Play action is simply a play form that initially involves a fake handoff to a RB, and evolves into a pass play, which can take on many forms.

Right, so I'm saying that mostly it's a subset of play action where Cousins rolls out that has impacted his "time to throw" stat. Perhaps I'm being nit picky. Regardless, we all watch the games and can see that the offensive line leaves us all wanting for something better. Elflein in particular had the worst guard pass protection rating from PFF in the league. And credit should go to Stefanski and Kubiak for making adjustments to afford more time for Cousins throw. Part of that also is that Cousins has thrived while throwing after rolling out. I found this:

Kirk Cousins is a bootleg machine.
Per NFL Next Gen Stats, Cousins has 7 passing TDs this season on designed rollouts to the left, including 2 in the Vikings 20-point comeback win on Sunday. The rest of the NFL has 1 touchdown pass on designed rollouts to the left all season.


(Courtney Cronin on Twitter)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Do you mean play action or quarterback throwing on a roll out or even on the run?

Play action.

So play action can mean just sticking the ball in the running back's gut and still keeping it while standing in the pocket. It may slow down the pass rush or may not. Am I wrong about that?

I believe so.

Seems like we have Kirk roll out a lot. provided the defense doesn't leave an edge guy to this side Kirk has really good success. GB was leaving an edge guy home and it really seemd to rattle Kirk even though he'd still have plenty of time to get the throw off.

Kirk simply doesn't have the stomach for pressure. not a good quality for an NFL qb.

I respectfully disagree. I found this:

UNDER PRESSURE: 91.5 passer rating, +3.8% completion rate above expectation, 58.1% completion rate.

Cousins was a stud under pressure in the earliest years of NGS tracking, which helped destroy a narrative of him being average at the absolute best. But thanks to a play-action offense built out of an emphatic rushing attack led by Dalvin Cook, Cousins doesn't face as much pressure as he once did. Even with that considered, he still lands in the top five of most under-pressure metrics. His passer rating under pressure was fifth-best, his completion percentage under pressure was fourth-best and his completion percentage above expectation while pressured was also in the top five. You won't often see Cousins' name mentioned among the Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes of the league, but he has the numbers to back it up.

https://www.nfl.com/news/top-10-qbs-under-pressure-ryan-tannehill-derek-carr-shine

Thank you. Kirk is superior to most QBs under pressure.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Do you mean play action or quarterback throwing on a roll out or even on the run?

Play action.

So play action can mean just sticking the ball in the running back's gut and still keeping it while standing in the pocket. It may slow down the pass rush or may not. Am I wrong about that?

It can. Play action is simply a play form that initially involves a fake handoff to a RB, and evolves into a pass play, which can take on many forms.

Right, so I'm saying that mostly it's a subset of play action where Cousins rolls out that has impacted his "time to throw" stat. Perhaps I'm being nit picky. Regardless, we all watch the games and can see that the offensive line leaves us all wanting for something better. Elflein in particular had the worst guard pass protection rating from PFF in the league. And credit should go to Stefanski and Kubiak for making adjustments to afford more time for Cousins throw. Part of that also is that Cousins has thrived while throwing after rolling out. I found this:

Kirk Cousins is a bootleg machine.
Per NFL Next Gen Stats, Cousins has 7 passing TDs this season on designed rollouts to the left, including 2 in the Vikings 20-point comeback win on Sunday. The rest of the NFL has 1 touchdown pass on designed rollouts to the left all season.


(Courtney Cronin on Twitter)

And rollouts to the left typically involve throwing across your body for right handed passers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Do you mean play action or quarterback throwing on a roll out or even on the run?

Play action.

So play action can mean just sticking the ball in the running back's gut and still keeping it while standing in the pocket. It may slow down the pass rush or may not. Am I wrong about that?

I believe so.

Seems like we have Kirk roll out a lot. provided the defense doesn't leave an edge guy to this side Kirk has really good success. GB was leaving an edge guy home and it really seemd to rattle Kirk even though he'd still have plenty of time to get the throw off.

Kirk simply doesn't have the stomach for pressure. not a good quality for an NFL qb.

I respectfully disagree. I found this:

UNDER PRESSURE: 91.5 passer rating, +3.8% completion rate above expectation, 58.1% completion rate.

Cousins was a stud under pressure in the earliest years of NGS tracking, which helped destroy a narrative of him being average at the absolute best. But thanks to a play-action offense built out of an emphatic rushing attack led by Dalvin Cook, Cousins doesn't face as much pressure as he once did. Even with that considered, he still lands in the top five of most under-pressure metrics. His passer rating under pressure was fifth-best, his completion percentage under pressure was fourth-best and his completion percentage above expectation while pressured was also in the top five. You won't often see Cousins' name mentioned among the Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes of the league, but he has the numbers to back it up.

https://www.nfl.com/news/top-10-qbs-under-pressure-ryan-tannehill-derek-carr-shine

Thank you. Kirk is superior to most QBs under pressure.

Eye test says different. I don't care what all these advanced metrics say.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Do you mean play action or quarterback throwing on a roll out or even on the run?

Play action.

So play action can mean just sticking the ball in the running back's gut and still keeping it while standing in the pocket. It may slow down the pass rush or may not. Am I wrong about that?

I believe so.

Seems like we have Kirk roll out a lot. provided the defense doesn't leave an edge guy to this side Kirk has really good success. GB was leaving an edge guy home and it really seemd to rattle Kirk even though he'd still have plenty of time to get the throw off.

Kirk simply doesn't have the stomach for pressure. not a good quality for an NFL qb.

I respectfully disagree. I found this:

UNDER PRESSURE: 91.5 passer rating, +3.8% completion rate above expectation, 58.1% completion rate.

Cousins was a stud under pressure in the earliest years of NGS tracking, which helped destroy a narrative of him being average at the absolute best. But thanks to a play-action offense built out of an emphatic rushing attack led by Dalvin Cook, Cousins doesn't face as much pressure as he once did. Even with that considered, he still lands in the top five of most under-pressure metrics. His passer rating under pressure was fifth-best, his completion percentage under pressure was fourth-best and his completion percentage above expectation while pressured was also in the top five. You won't often see Cousins' name mentioned among the Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes of the league, but he has the numbers to back it up.

https://www.nfl.com/news/top-10-qbs-under-pressure-ryan-tannehill-derek-carr-shine

Thank you. Kirk is superior to most QBs under pressure.

Eye test says different. I don't care what all these advanced metrics say.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

You guys have all watched the games. There is no way in hell anyone can convince me that Cousins is good under pressure.

he curls up like a little school girl. just rewatch week 2 vs GB

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

You guys have all watched the games. There is no way in hell anyone can convince me that Cousins is good under pressure.

he curls up like a little school girl. just rewatch week 2 vs GB

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

You guys have all watched the games. There is no way in hell anyone can convince me that Cousins is good under pressure.

he curls up like a little school girl. just rewatch week 2 vs GB

When the pressure comes from the middle it's really hard for most quarterbacks to escape the pressure. It feels like to me that he is good passing under pressure, but he lacks the mobility to create something out of nothing. Cousins was sacked an average of 1.75 times per game, which is tied with the Patriots for the sixth best in the league. For sure Cousins did throw the ball away quite a few times, but it's interesting to note that he only threw 8 interceptions, so it seems to me that he was making good decisions for the most part. I just checked and he fumbled the ball only three times which has been a problem for him in the past. I imagine that a lot of emphasis was placed on minimizing that by the coaches.

Perhaps he can do better if the Vikings can develop a viable third receiver. That could be Irv Smith, Jr., but this article suggests Hollins may be the third receiver with the most juice to his game. I have compared Hollins to Thielen in that he was undrafted from a small school. It would be cool if he could take a big leap in production this season. Anyway it doesn't really matter which receiver seizes the job; I just want one of these prospects to emerge big time.

https://thevikingage.com/2020/07/17/3-reasons-alexander-hollins-vikings-wr3/

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

You guys have all watched the games. There is no way in hell anyone can convince me that Cousins is good under pressure.

he curls up like a little school girl. just rewatch week 2 vs GB

When the pressure comes from the middle it's really hard for most quarterbacks to escape the pressure. It feels like to me that he is good passing under pressure, but he lacks the mobility to create something out of nothing. Cousins was sacked an average of 1.75 times per game, which is tied with the Patriots for the sixth best in the league. For sure Cousins did throw the ball away quite a few times, but it's interesting to note that he only threw 8 interceptions, so it seems to me that he was making good decisions for the most part. I just checked and he fumbled the ball only three times which has been a problem for him in the past. I imagine that a lot of emphasis was placed on minimizing that by the coaches.

Perhaps he can do better if the Vikings can develop a viable third receiver. That could be Irv Smith, Jr., but this article suggests Hollins may be the third receiver with the most juice to his game. I have compared Hollins to Thielen in that he was undrafted from a small school. It would be cool if he could take a big leap in production this season. Anyway it doesn't really matter which receiver seizes the job; I just want one of these prospects to emerge big time.

https://thevikingage.com/2020/07/17/3-reasons-alexander-hollins-vikings-wr3/

I'm pretty confident that Sharpe, Bisi and Osborn will all have spots. If Sharpe doesn't I will be proven right on questioning the guaranteed money to him. Will Mitchell break through.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

You will be surprised to see which team had the lowest missed tackle rate and which one had the highest.

https://www.pff.com/news/sig-stats-tackling-efficiency-by-team

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeLain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

You will be surprised to see which team had the lowest missed tackle rate and which one had the highest.

https://www.pff.com/news/sig-stats-tackling-efficiency-by-team

The Vikings and Browns were the only two teams in the Top 10 for both defensive missed tackles and special teams missed tackles.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Maybe no Zimmer extension is forthcoming. Getting kind of late compared to past extensions. He's reportedly "irked". You gotta love the way his team tackles, but perhaps the Wilfs want more. I guess we all do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Maybe no Zimmer extension is forthcoming. Getting kind of late compared to past extensions. He's reportedly "irked". You gotta love the way his team tackles, but perhaps the Wilfs want more. I guess we all do.

If we replace him IMO whoever it is will not be as good.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Maybe no Zimmer extension is forthcoming. Getting kind of late compared to past extensions. He's reportedly "irked". You gotta love the way his team tackles, but perhaps the Wilfs want more. I guess we all do.

If we replace him IMO whoever it is will not be as good.

I agree from the standpoint of W-L, where Zimmer looks very good. The issue goes back to the comment he made at the end of last season, where he said regarding the possibility that he would be moving on, “Quite honestly I think it’s silly that people were talking about it on a 10-win team that’s 60-percent wins.” Seems to miss the point that expectations are a bit higher after six years. Does he have the traits to win the big one?