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RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/2/2021 4:26:13 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 27524
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

At least years from now whenever people talk about NFL QBs who stole tens of millions of dollars with repeated mega-deals, any Vikings fan can look back fondly and proudly say the Vikings had both the 1 AND 2 ranked QBs in Bradford and Cousins. In back to back years at that! A record that will not be topped.

Just goes to show you what QB rankings are worth.

Just to clarify, 1 and 2 ranked in mega-deal millions stolen (from the owners and available cap).

Post #: 1376

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/3/2021 5:58:23 AM

marty

Posts: 12655
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Just to clarify, I think KC is better than the old Elway, the old Manning, Dilfer and BJs that won the SB.

They didn't carry their teams on their back.

But Eli did.

Until KC does that in a playoff run, all the way through to a SB win, we aren't sure he's capable of that.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 1377

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/3/2021 7:09:59 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22649
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Just to clarify, I think KC is better than the old Elway, the old Manning, Dilfer and BJs that won the SB.

They didn't carry their teams on their back.

But Eli did.

Until KC does that in a playoff run, all the way through to a SB win, we aren't sure he's capable of that.

Many would argue, myself included, that the Giants defense carried them to two Super Bowl wins over the Patriots. The first time around they held a 16-0 New England team that had averaged nearly 37 points-per-game to 14. The next time around they held a 13-3 New England team averaging over 32 points-per-game to 17. How Eli Manning won an MVP for either of those performances is still a mystery to me. He was a mediocre quarterback that was bailed out by David Tyree and Mario Manningham. No way in the world should he have won game MVP the first time around when he went 19-of-34 for 255, 2 TD's and 1 INT. You could make a case when he went 30-of-40 for 296 and a TD in the second game.

In the 2008 game (2007 season) New England had one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history. Holding them to 14 was an insane performance by the defense. They should have given the MVP award to any one of five or six players on the defense, but the Manning name proved to be more valuable after the success of Peyton. Eli just happened to be IN the game.

I felt the same way about Biletnikoff winning the MVP against the Vikings. That award should have belonged to Clarence Davis or any number of defensive players (Willie Brown, Phil Villapiano, George Atkinson, Ted Hendricks). Biletnikoff had four catches for 79 yards. Heck, Dave Casper had four catches for 70 yards and a score.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 4/3/2021 7:23:36 AM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1378

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/3/2021 9:09:59 AM

jbusse

Posts: 1308
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Just to clarify, I think KC is better than the old Elway, the old Manning, Dilfer and BJs that won the SB.

They didn't carry their teams on their back.

But Eli did.

Until KC does that in a playoff run, all the way through to a SB win, we aren't sure he's capable of that.

Many would argue, myself included, that the Giants defense carried them to two Super Bowl wins over the Patriots. The first time around they held a 16-0 New England team that had averaged nearly 37 points-per-game to 14. The next time around they held a 13-3 New England team averaging over 32 points-per-game to 17. How Eli Manning won an MVP for either of those performances is still a mystery to me. He was a mediocre quarterback that was bailed out by David Tyree and Mario Manningham. No way in the world should he have won game MVP the first time around when he went 19-of-34 for 255, 2 TD's and 1 INT. You could make a case when he went 30-of-40 for 296 and a TD in the second game.

In the 2008 game (2007 season) New England had one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history. Holding them to 14 was an insane performance by the defense. They should have given the MVP award to any one of five or six players on the defense, but the Manning name proved to be more valuable after the success of Peyton. Eli just happened to be IN the game.

I felt the same way about Biletnikoff winning the MVP against the Vikings. That award should have belonged to Clarence Davis or any number of defensive players (Willie Brown, Phil Villapiano, George Atkinson, Ted Hendricks). Biletnikoff had four catches for 79 yards. Heck, Dave Casper had four catches for 70 yards and a score.

Eli led the game winning drive in the last two minutes of both games. Isn't that how you judge quarterbacks, last two minutes?

Post #: 1379

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/3/2021 9:52:16 AM

paulgly

Posts: 167
Joined: 4/13/2020
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Just to clarify, I think KC is better than the old Elway, the old Manning, Dilfer and BJs that won the SB.

They didn't carry their teams on their back.

But Eli did.

Until KC does that in a playoff run, all the way through to a SB win, we aren't sure he's capable of that.

Many would argue, myself included, that the Giants defense carried them to two Super Bowl wins over the Patriots. The first time around they held a 16-0 New England team that had averaged nearly 37 points-per-game to 14. The next time around they held a 13-3 New England team averaging over 32 points-per-game to 17. How Eli Manning won an MVP for either of those performances is still a mystery to me. He was a mediocre quarterback that was bailed out by David Tyree and Mario Manningham. No way in the world should he have won game MVP the first time around when he went 19-of-34 for 255, 2 TD's and 1 INT. You could make a case when he went 30-of-40 for 296 and a TD in the second game.

In the 2008 game (2007 season) New England had one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history. Holding them to 14 was an insane performance by the defense. They should have given the MVP award to any one of five or six players on the defense, but the Manning name proved to be more valuable after the success of Peyton. Eli just happened to be IN the game.

I felt the same way about Biletnikoff winning the MVP against the Vikings. That award should have belonged to Clarence Davis or any number of defensive players (Willie Brown, Phil Villapiano, George Atkinson, Ted Hendricks). Biletnikoff had four catches for 79 yards. Heck, Dave Casper had four catches for 70 yards and a score.

Eli led the game winning drive in the last two minutes of both games. Isn't that how you judge quarterbacks, last two minutes?

I semi-agree however in the first game without that Tyree catch (and it was more of an incredible play on his part than Eli's) the game winning drive doesn't happen and he would have had very pedestrian stats. The second MVP was more justified.

Post #: 1380

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/3/2021 10:50:45 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 27524
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulgly

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Just to clarify, I think KC is better than the old Elway, the old Manning, Dilfer and BJs that won the SB.

They didn't carry their teams on their back.

But Eli did.

Until KC does that in a playoff run, all the way through to a SB win, we aren't sure he's capable of that.

Many would argue, myself included, that the Giants defense carried them to two Super Bowl wins over the Patriots. The first time around they held a 16-0 New England team that had averaged nearly 37 points-per-game to 14. The next time around they held a 13-3 New England team averaging over 32 points-per-game to 17. How Eli Manning won an MVP for either of those performances is still a mystery to me. He was a mediocre quarterback that was bailed out by David Tyree and Mario Manningham. No way in the world should he have won game MVP the first time around when he went 19-of-34 for 255, 2 TD's and 1 INT. You could make a case when he went 30-of-40 for 296 and a TD in the second game.

In the 2008 game (2007 season) New England had one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history. Holding them to 14 was an insane performance by the defense. They should have given the MVP award to any one of five or six players on the defense, but the Manning name proved to be more valuable after the success of Peyton. Eli just happened to be IN the game.

I felt the same way about Biletnikoff winning the MVP against the Vikings. That award should have belonged to Clarence Davis or any number of defensive players (Willie Brown, Phil Villapiano, George Atkinson, Ted Hendricks). Biletnikoff had four catches for 79 yards. Heck, Dave Casper had four catches for 70 yards and a score.

Eli led the game winning drive in the last two minutes of both games. Isn't that how you judge quarterbacks, last two minutes?

I semi-agree however in the first game without that Tyree catch (and it was more of an incredible play on his part than Eli's) the game winning drive doesn't happen and he would have had very pedestrian stats. The second MVP was more justified.

Didn't Eli scramble, contort, and contort some more to avoid a bunch of rushers? Heck of a play to give Tyree a chance.

Post #: 1381

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/4/2021 1:17:01 AM

Todd M

Posts: 39776
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulgly

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Just to clarify, I think KC is better than the old Elway, the old Manning, Dilfer and BJs that won the SB.

They didn't carry their teams on their back.

But Eli did.

Until KC does that in a playoff run, all the way through to a SB win, we aren't sure he's capable of that.

Many would argue, myself included, that the Giants defense carried them to two Super Bowl wins over the Patriots. The first time around they held a 16-0 New England team that had averaged nearly 37 points-per-game to 14. The next time around they held a 13-3 New England team averaging over 32 points-per-game to 17. How Eli Manning won an MVP for either of those performances is still a mystery to me. He was a mediocre quarterback that was bailed out by David Tyree and Mario Manningham. No way in the world should he have won game MVP the first time around when he went 19-of-34 for 255, 2 TD's and 1 INT. You could make a case when he went 30-of-40 for 296 and a TD in the second game.

In the 2008 game (2007 season) New England had one of the most prolific offenses in NFL history. Holding them to 14 was an insane performance by the defense. They should have given the MVP award to any one of five or six players on the defense, but the Manning name proved to be more valuable after the success of Peyton. Eli just happened to be IN the game.

I felt the same way about Biletnikoff winning the MVP against the Vikings. That award should have belonged to Clarence Davis or any number of defensive players (Willie Brown, Phil Villapiano, George Atkinson, Ted Hendricks). Biletnikoff had four catches for 79 yards. Heck, Dave Casper had four catches for 70 yards and a score.

Eli led the game winning drive in the last two minutes of both games. Isn't that how you judge quarterbacks, last two minutes?

I semi-agree however in the first game without that Tyree catch (and it was more of an incredible play on his part than Eli's) the game winning drive doesn't happen and he would have had very pedestrian stats. The second MVP was more justified.

Didn't Eli scramble, contort, and contort some more to avoid a bunch of rushers? Heck of a play to give Tyree a chance.

Going by memory he was *just about 'in the grasp' but the ensuing action around him peeled him loose. I.E., he found himself free more than made himself free by ability.

Post #: 1382

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/4/2021 1:19:56 AM

Todd M

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Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

IMO he was lucky to be free and even luckier his chuck and pray found its mark against Tyee's helmet.

Post #: 1383

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/4/2021 12:18:28 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28246
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

Aren't we normally into OTA season by now?

Post #: 1384

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/4/2021 1:05:58 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 44300
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

No, the draft is usually around April 20.

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1385

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/4/2021 3:03:18 PM

thebigo

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

No, the draft is usually around April 20.

I thought they had earlier OTAs for veterans pre-covid

Post #: 1386

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/4/2021 4:01:05 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/vikings-offseason-preview-ten-step-plan-return-playoffs-2021

Check out the pass plays called vs expected. Archaic play calling.

But it's all Cousins fault we didn't make the playoffs

Who even said that? Maybe Bruce can answer (or answer through his proxy, twitter).

Most posts about Cousins are he doesn't live up to his salary, has a terrible time in the pocket, doesn't have leadership qualities, isn't the QB to lead us to a SB, etc.

So who said Cousins is the reason we failed to make the playoffs in 2020? Or is that some strawman you are going with?

I'm just pulling a bigo. Having some fun. As a fan, I don't have a issue with Cousins salary, never liked the extension, but performance and annual average for his contract is market rate, imo. Cousins is average in the pocket base on straight drop back time to release, but gets compared to generational talents like Brady (who might be the best of all time at small movements in the pocket that buy time). Average with our interior line is a disaster. I don't pretend to know his leadership in the lockerroom. This board brings up Griffen, Diggs, JJ, etc but ignore Diggs comments while in Buffalo, Cook's comments that he believes Cousins can lead us to the SB, etc.

As Marty pointed out - Cousins is superior to the Brad Johnsons, Dilfers, and old Mannings that won superbowls. Only two QBs in the last twenty years were able to win a Superbowl when the combined rush rank and defensive rank was higher than 15. If I remember right, one was Aaron Rodgers. It's a team game.

I blame team building and coaching a lot more than Cousins, but that's just my opinion. And I've gone on record that I want QBs drafted or am open to a trade of Cousins and starting the search for QBOTF right now.

Cousins was the 30th ranked starter last year in the last two minutes of halves. He's not a leader, he's a $12-million quarterback making $33-million. You can't earn the respect of your teammates or win big games with those kinds of numbers.

Teammates also know when players don't do their assignments - miss blocks, drop passes, run the wrong routes, and see terrible play calling (all which happened in the final two minutes of halves last year). Again I don't know how Cousins leadership in the locker room is viewed.

I won't even comment on your continued assertion he's a 12M QB. Or cherry picked stats - sample size for that is incredibly small and statistically insignificant, nor does it have any context.

If people are going to use stats when saying the guy's contract is valued correctly, one should also be able to point out his stats during crunch time. You can't just ignore the last two minutes of halves as if other players were playing around him. It was the same guys and he choked!

The only problem with this is that the offensive line blocks much better for runs than passing. In particular, when the whole world knows we have to pass, the opposition can ignore the threat of the run and rush Cousins. You will note that in this situation come a lot of the sacks and interceptions. It's that way for a lot of quarterbacks, and it's true the ones who are better at it are more mobile, but in our case you have to know that we have the worst interior pass blocking in the history of the NFL and it's not even close. I'm not joking. It's really that bad.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1387

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/5/2021 11:28:12 AM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 36128
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: online

Ed White is 74 today.
I remember him when he won the NFL arm wrestling contest.
Strong man!!!

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"

Post #: 1388

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/5/2021 11:50:04 AM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 36128
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: online

Who'd thunk it?

In there 1st 100 starts only QB's in NFL history with at least 26K passing yards and a 97.0 passer rating:
Cousins
Rodgers

CBS Sports

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"

Post #: 1389

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/5/2021 12:44:25 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 27524
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Who'd thunk it?

In there 1st 100 starts only QB's in NFL history with at least 26K passing yards and a 97.0 passer rating:
Cousins
Rodgers

CBS Sports

Pretty much the whole board knows Cousins is a stat machine. He even admitted similar when he signed, and said he needs to take the next step.

Post #: 1390

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/5/2021 12:46:51 PM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 36128
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Who'd thunk it?

In there 1st 100 starts only QB's in NFL history with at least 26K passing yards and a 97.0 passer rating:
Cousins
Rodgers

CBS Sports

Pretty much the whole board knows Cousins is a stat machine. He even admitted similar when he signed, and said he needs to take the next step.

Thought there would be more than those 2.

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"

Post #: 1391

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/5/2021 1:27:51 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 27524
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Who'd thunk it?

In there 1st 100 starts only QB's in NFL history with at least 26K passing yards and a 97.0 passer rating:
Cousins
Rodgers

CBS Sports

Pretty much the whole board knows Cousins is a stat machine. He even admitted similar when he signed, and said he needs to take the next step.

Thought there would be more than those 2.

I don't know the most feasible combinations to get a 97 passer rating. As for the 26K, on the surface that is only 260 yards per game. But over a 16 game season (just to highlight what that means) it is 4,160 yards. Maintain that pace for 6 1/4 seasons.

They would have to put up good numbers in those early starts in order to stay on track. Not surprising, neither was thrown right into the fire. They didn't become full-time starters until their 4th year. They played a little, and probably learned a lot watching, being in meetings, etc.

Post #: 1392

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/5/2021 1:38:04 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 27524
Status: offline

Figured Wilson would have been on that list. He was hot from the get-go, but I guess part of that was his ability to make plays with his feet. That was the 'new era' of QB. I remember Manning had a lot of picks early (hurt his rating) but he looked like a future star even that first season. The San Diego Brees wasn't the N.O. Brees. Interesting.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 4/5/2021 1:39:06 PM >

Post #: 1393

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/5/2021 1:41:11 PM

David F.

Posts: 10833
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: online

Based on career QB rating, Kirk Cousins is the 6th best QB of all time. Better than Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, Dan Marino and a bunch of others.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 1394

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/5/2021 3:07:36 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28246
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Ed White is 74 today.
I remember him when he won the NFL arm wrestling contest.
Strong man!!!

When Vikings were Vikings.

Post #: 1395

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/5/2021 4:12:00 PM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 36128
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Ed White is 74 today.
I remember him when he won the NFL arm wrestling contest.
Strong man!!!

When Vikings were Vikings.

We could use him and Ron Yary right now!

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"

Post #: 1396

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/5/2021 4:27:14 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 44300
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Ed White is 74 today.
I remember him when he won the NFL arm wrestling contest.
Strong man!!!

When Vikings were Vikings.

We could use him and Ron Yary right now!

I met Ed White at the Turkey Tavern in Le Sueur in 1975. He was doing some promotion for the bar and my older brother was covering it for the local news paper there. Nice guy.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1397

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/5/2021 4:36:01 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26342
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

Jeff Gladney....potential idiot. Arrested for 3rd degree felony family violence assault....

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 1398

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/5/2021 5:36:45 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28246
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Jeff Gladney....potential idiot. Arrested for 3rd degree felony family violence assault....

And the hits just keep on comin'...

Post #: 1399

RE: General Vikes Talk - 4/5/2021 5:57:02 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Ed White is 74 today.
I remember him when he won the NFL arm wrestling contest.
Strong man!!!

When Vikings were Vikings.

We could use him and Ron Yary right now!

I was wondering who we traded him for. It was for Ricky Young. I guess if that trade had worked out we wouldn't have traded for Walker. According to a Chargers website, it was the best trade they ever made. So was that the worst trade the Vikings made? No. Of course the Walker trade was. Back to back almost. Yikes.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1400