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RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 10:20:21 AM   
Steve Lentz


Posts: 36121
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline 		I think we're in the playoffs with Hunter and Pierce.
I think Jefferson is top 3 ROY.
The defense let us down yesterday.

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Post #: 4776
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 10:22:55 AM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

As a member of the Vikings, Randall Cunningham had only one game with 300+ Yards, 3+ TDs, and 0 INTs.

Dustin Baker

(Numbers that Cousins achieved yesterday)


I don't want a QB that knows how to achieve the perfect rating. I want one that is willing to risk a pick in the proper situation where if he can get the ball in that tight window it's a game-changing TD. If a QB will only throw to 'sure-things' that will eventually make an offense very much not dangerous. Give me a win yesterday with 3 TD passes and 2 INTs and screw the rating.

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I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 4777
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 10:25:23 AM   
David F.


Posts: 10833
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

I think we're in the playoffs with Hunter and Pierce.
I think Jefferson is top 3 ROY.
The defense let us down yesterday.


100% we would make the playoffs with Hunter and Pierce but how far could we go? I'm not thrilled that as a team we seem to need everything to go right just to achieve minimum goals.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 4778
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 10:41:19 AM   
Mr. Ed


Posts: 88732
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Minne-so-ta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Bret Jones posted the best PFF ranking of any Viking RG for this season. Who on the team evaluates these guys? They thought the ranking should be Elflien, Samia, Cleveland, Jones. IT APPEARS THAT IT WAS PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE?!?!!?!?


Radio guys yesterday said Jones was struggling early. IDK how long that was but at least the first couple series.

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Post #: 4779
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 10:42:28 AM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 38415
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline 		My thoughts about the end of the game.

Before the Cowpukes scored their winning TD we needed a time consuming drive to ice the game. we got an offense that fizzled out.

After they scored we needed a drive JUST TO GET US INTO FG RANGE. Twice this year this has happened and our Offence imploded. in a very similar situation in KC last night, the Chiefs needed a drive to get them into FG range, same score, roughly the same amount of time, same number of time outs. They marched right down the field and scored the game winning TD. WE HAVEN'T HAD A QB THAT COULD DO THAT CONSISTANTLY (with the brief exception of the ancient Brett Favre) SINCE TOMMY KRAMER. I want a young QB with the Mahomes, Wilson, Murray, Rodgers, etc etc etc mentality that every game is winnable until it is over.

I am sick of the big moment ineptitude of our QB situation for the past few decades. WE NEED AN UPGRADE. Cousins is a decent QB but you can't put the game on his shoulders and hope to win. He's paid too much to be so timid in big situations. We need that Favre guile.

Now, I am sure it isn't ALL Cousins. Some of it is inept playcalling. When we need to ice a game they curl up in a shell and get stupid. but we need a QB that will audible out of that fear of mistake based approach.

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Post #: 4780
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 10:45:31 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Bret Jones posted the best PFF ranking of any Viking RG for this season. Who on the team evaluates these guys? They thought the ranking should be Elflien, Samia, Cleveland, Jones. IT APPEARS THAT IT WAS PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE?!?!!?!?


Radio guys yesterday said Jones was struggling early. IDK how long that was but at least the first couple series.


More on the grades for offensive linemen:

Brett Jones was easily the highest graded OL for the #Vikings against the Cowboys. 75.0 overall. Bradbury, Dozier and Reiff all at or near the bottom. O'Neill a mediocre 61.7.

Warren Ludford on Twitter

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 4781
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 10:47:50 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

So this will mark the end of Zimmer's 7th season.
2 division wins, 2 playoff wins (1 of those a mircale)
Not even competitive in anything past 1 playoff win
Signed a $30M QB to be the difference maker, no division wins, one playoff appearance/win in 3 seasons, with 2 very non competitive years.


Is this acceptable? Should Vikings ownership expect better?

If you add up all those seasons we are probably somewhere between #9 to #13 for overall record.

That's good but Zimmer has proven to just be a little bit better than Marvin Lewis. And that doesn't get you a championship.

Unless we lose 5 or 6 more games this year, he will be back. New contract and key players coming back from injury will be the reason.

Unfortunately, I agree.

I am wildly guessing that the record and league-wide reputation of Zimmer and Spielman is probably in the 10-12 range compared to other regimes/franchises over the last 6 years. Even if they were just inside of 10, they married a QB that is simply not gritty enough to push them higher and their season to season inconsistency just doesn't cut it.

However, given the built-in excuse of a surreal season, I'm thinking 7-9 (3 wins 3 losses the rest of the way) keeps the current regime in place for sure ... 6-10 is less certain ... 5-11 (only one more win to 5 losses) may force ownership's hand to move on.

It's hard to say, without fans booing in the stands I think that blunts the pain of a bad record a bit (for ownership) ...

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 11/23/2020 10:51:49 AM >
Post #: 4782
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 10:56:41 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Dakota Dozier allowed 4 pressures vs the Cowboys and was the LOWEST graded guard in the NFL this week with a 27.4 PFF pass blocking grade.

Meanwhile Brett Jones allowed 1 pressure and led the Vikings O-Line in all 3 grading categories.

Purple FTW on Twitter

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 4783
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 10:59:05 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Cousins had a 148.9 passer rating targeting Thielen and a 143.8 passer rating targeting Jefferson😳

Tanishka on Twitter

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 4784
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 11:04:22 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		The Cowboys returned three punts for 48 yards yesterday.
The Vikings have 13 punt return yards all season.

Chad Graf on Twitter

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 4785
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 11:13:38 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27486
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

Though we lost to a 2-7 Cowboy team, they were coming off the bye and were healthier than they had been most of the season. They matchup well against the young secondary, while their OLine has the physicality vs a smaller defensive front. Actually the 2 incompletions to Thielen on the final 2 drives was the exact same route Cooper ran to covert the 4th down on the Cowboys final drive.

The Cook fumble proved very costly, not his fault at all and 9 time out of 10 that's incomplete but the timing was perfect.


it's a good point about a bye vs MNF. Extra rest big at this point, and we are not good enough to make mistakes and overcome that sort of rest advantage!


The NFL schedule has hundreds of variables that go into it, and one should be to eliminate a possible game with a team coming off a bye vs. a team that played an away game on MNF.
Post #: 4786
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 11:15:12 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27486
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

So this will mark the end of Zimmer's 7th season.
2 division wins, 2 playoff wins (1 of those a mircale)
Not even competitive in anything past 1 playoff win
Signed a $30M QB to be the difference maker, no division wins, one playoff appearance/win in 3 seasons, with 2 very non competitive years.


Is this acceptable? Should Vikings ownership expect better?


IDK. How were ticket sales and attendance? Where do they rank per capita on merchandise sales?
Post #: 4787
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 11:20:53 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		How in the holy hell was Brett Jones only used as the 5th option at guard on this team?

Jones actually got cut and placed on the practice squad, while Eddie Yarbrough and Dan Chisena made the team.

Krauser on Twitter

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 4788
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 11:23:26 AM   
Steve Lentz


Posts: 36121
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Cousins had a 148.9 passer rating targeting Thielen and a 143.8 passer rating targeting Jefferson😳

Tanishka on Twitter

We have a tremendous WR combo and the best RB in football.
We need to get better on both the OL and DL to be a true contender. I think this past draft will pay long term dividends in multiple positions.

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" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"
Post #: 4789
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 11:27:26 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28246
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Cousins had a 148.9 passer rating targeting Thielen and a 143.8 passer rating targeting Jefferson😳

Tanishka on Twitter

We have a tremendous WR combo and the best RB in football.
We need to get better on both the OL and DL to be a true contender. I think this past draft will pay long term dividends in multiple positions.


Getting Hunter and Pierce back, along with the improvement of our young guys, SHOULD fix the DL.

Getting Oli Udoh on the field SOMEWHERE say at left guard could go a long way to fixing our OL.
Post #: 4790
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 11:27:49 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		The Vikings pressured Andy Dalton on just four passes yesterday.

SkorNorth on Twitter

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 4791
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 11:31:47 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27486
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

A few thoughts:

1. Well, there goes the season. At least the Vikings dashed our hopes early. Usually the team sucks us in, strings us a long, then and finds a way to make it as painful as possible to be a Vikings fan.

2. When your team has as many holes as the Vikings do, you cannot be terrible in any one area. Mediocre, maybe. Our special teams are terrible. Definitely needs to be a focus of the team's attention going into next year.

3. What happened to Harrison Smith? Easily the worst game I've seen him play. Obviously he was trying to cover for the rookie CB's but he only made matters worse.

4. We need a QBOTF in the draft. Kirk can't put a team on his shoulders and lead them to victory. The Vikings need to keep swinging until they find their version of Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson. Watch KC last night. Did anyone think that Mahomes was NOT going to lead his team to a comeback victory? It's not okay to settle for mediocrity at the position.

5. We have an elite core of skill position players on offense with Cook, Smith, Thielen and Jefferson. With a better offensive line this team could lead the league in scoring next year.

5. I don't trust Spielman at all, but the Vikings have a lot of quality players and can easily compete next year with a few smart decisions:

- save salary by booting Reiff, Barr, Rudolph, Harris
- draft/sign 2 OG's, 1 3T DT

That's it!

Spielman has a million draft picks, and could free up the cap space to make it happen. Of course we need depth, and we'll need another S, but if we make it a priority to fill those 3 positions this team can compete for a Superbowl next year.

We'll see...


Irv Smith is 164th in the league in receiving yards with 182. 20 yards per game over his 9 games. He could literally get that by catching 5 balls at the LOS, taking one small step, and lunging forward to the ground. Unrealized potential; the league is littered with those types.

Theilen IMO is not elite, although he has a lot of TDs this year. Depends on what you define as "elite". He had a great 20117 and 2018, and I think he will have a few awesome games this season, less next season, etc. Although, he may do well longer if the other weapons suck up more attention.

A QB is IMO part of an offensive skill set, at least as much as a TE. Cousins is not elite.

We have Cook and a rookie WR who will need to show year on year consistency, especially as he faces better defenders and possibly schemes against him. Ideally Smith Jr. joins them. And we get a QB. And blocking, yadda, yadda.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/23/2020 11:38:53 AM >
Post #: 4792
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 11:39:46 AM   
Burns


Posts: 592
Status: offline 		Anyone blaming Cousins as being a factor in this loss needs their head examined. The matador defense, crappy special teams, turnovers, penalties, and zero pass rush, were the biggest contributing factors. Unless he starts playing snaps on defense and special teams – he did enough for us to win.
I saw no emotion on the defense. No one leading that group. No one stepping up. Andy Dalton was so comfortable back there it looked like the return of the red rocket gun slinging days.

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Post #: 4793
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 11:42:47 AM   
Arlowe84

 

Posts: 326
Joined: 9/30/2019
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

I think we're in the playoffs with Hunter and Pierce.
I think Jefferson is top 3 ROY.
The defense let us down yesterday.


Possibly. But this team barely made it last year and our secondary is much worse this year
Post #: 4794
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 11:45:02 AM   
Arlowe84

 

Posts: 326
Joined: 9/30/2019
Status: offline 		No one is blaming Cousins. Dude has been a starter for like 8 seasons and has led a team to zero division titles
30 mil you get paid to win. Not make pretty throws
It was just a bad signing but worse extension Not worth the money
Post #: 4795
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 11:53:45 AM   
beo

 

Posts: 2204
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Bret Jones posted the best PFF ranking of any Viking RG for this season. Who on the team evaluates these guys? They thought the ranking should be Elflien, Samia, Cleveland, Jones. IT APPEARS THAT IT WAS PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE?!?!!?!?


Jones wasn't even with the team at the start of the season right??!?!?!?
Because they let him go?!?!?!

WTF...
Post #: 4796
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 12:05:01 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 2204
Joined: 3/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Burns

Anyone blaming Cousins as being a factor in this loss needs their head examined. The matador defense, crappy special teams, turnovers, penalties, and zero pass rush, were the biggest contributing factors. Unless he starts playing snaps on defense and special teams – he did enough for us to win.
I saw no emotion on the defense. No one leading that group. No one stepping up. Andy Dalton was so comfortable back there it looked like the return of the red rocket gun slinging days.

"he did enough for us to win"
Agreed.

But we need a 30mil per year guy to be a star.
Not just "do enough".

Wouldn't it be nice to say "Cousins wins it at the end AGAIN!"
When given the ball with under 2 min left in the game and needing a score... the track record isn't good.

Cousins was able to pull off the New Orleans playoff winning drive... that was amazing... that is what we brought him in for... that is what fans are clamoring for.

Today, for the most part, you need a star who can erase some other weaknesses on the team... I don't see that in Cousins.

He certainly isn't all the problems on the team.
But I don't think he is the answer either.
Post #: 4797
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 12:19:00 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27486
Status: offline 		From the Star-Trib: What makes a player "clutch" is something of a nebulous concept in sports, but last-minute drives frequently reward elements of quarterbacking — namely the ability to operate quickly or improvise on broken plays — that aren't necessarily Cousins' strengths. He's also made no secret of the fact he's better when he has a complementary running game; last-minute situations often take that option out of his hands.
Post #: 4798
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 12:31:52 PM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 38415
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Burns

Anyone blaming Cousins as being a factor in this loss needs their head examined. The matador defense, crappy special teams, turnovers, penalties, and zero pass rush, were the biggest contributing factors. Unless he starts playing snaps on defense and special teams – he did enough for us to win.
I saw no emotion on the defense. No one leading that group. No one stepping up. Andy Dalton was so comfortable back there it looked like the return of the red rocket gun slinging days.



1. Cousins was responsible for the first turnover.
2. The second should have had a "hitting a denfenseless receiver penalty" called on it just like they did against Harrison Smith Earlier in the game.
3. Our defense did turn them over as well
4. When all we needed Cousins to do was get us into FG range, he couldn't manage a first down.

Look, it's a team sport. He had very good moments in this game, but when the pressure was on and we needed a drive (either the one before Dallas scored the winning TD where we could have iced the game or the last drive) he couldn't deliver. I don't know how much was Cousins and how much was playing scared of mistakes playcalling, but a good QB like Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Stafford, Mahomes, Murray, Wilson...would have done more in those situations because that is where you win the big games.

Cousins isn't a bad QB....but he will never be a great one because he can't overcome things like The matador defense, crappy special teams, turnovers, penalties, and zero pass rush to will his team to a win.

He gets paid too much to not do this.

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Post #: 4799
RE: General Vikes Talk - 11/23/2020 12:33:57 PM   
Trekgeekscott


Posts: 38415
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

No one is blaming Cousins. Dude has been a starter for like 8 seasons and has led a team to zero division titles
30 mil you get paid to win. Not make pretty throws
It was just a bad signing but worse extension Not worth the money


The extension was necessary for salary cap reasons.


I wish there was some way out of it...

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